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1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA
2 NORTHERN DIVISION
3
4 JUAN ROMAGOZA ARCE, JANE ) Docket No.
DOE, in her personal capacity ) 99-8364-CIV-HURLEY
5 as Personal Representative of )
the ESTATE OF BABY DOE, )
6 )
Plaintiffs, )
7 vs. ) West Palm Beach, Florida
) June 25, 2002
8 JOSE GUILLERMO GARCIA, an )
individual, CARLOS EUGENIO VIDES)
9 CASANOVA, an individual, and ) VOLUME 2
DOES 1 through 50, inclusive, )
10 )
Defendants. )
11 _______________________________ x
12
13
14 COURT REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF
TESTIMONY AND PROCEEDINGS HAD BEFORE
15 JUDGE DANIEL T. K. HURLEY
16
17 APPEARANCES:
18 For the Plaintiffs: JAMES GREEN, ESQ.
PETER STERN, ESQ.
19 BETH VanSCHAACK, ESQ.
20 For Defendant: KURT KLAUS, ESQ.
21
Court Reporter: Pauline A. Stipes, C.S.R., C.M.
22
23
24
PAULINE A. STIPES
25 Official Reporter
U. S. District Court
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1 THE COURT: I wanted to just talk with you for a
2 second.
3 There was a case in Florida awhile ago, and there
4 was a lawyer who is a magnificent lawyer, marvelous trial
5 lawyer, and the case involved, it was a criminal
6 prosecution, and involved a fellow who was a boat captain
7 who clearly panicked bringing over illegal aliens, and had
8 these people literally pushed or jumped out of a boat,
9 probably a half mile from shore, not far at all, and
10 people drowned, it was a terrible, terrible case.
11 When that lawyer was arguing the case at the end,
12 he began to cry. It was a very natural thing, but that
13 was the major issue on appeal. I know that lawyer, and he
14 is a magnificent lawyer, and that was not faked or
15 anything else, it was a natural thing.
16 I don't think the case was overruled, but I know
17 that was one of the major issues on appeal.
18 Now, you folks are facing the jury and the
19 testimony in this case is just, you know, there cannot be
20 more emotionally wrenching testimony. Ms. VanSchaack, you
21 are very expressive, and you had tears yesterday through a
22 great deal of the testimony. My concern is, I don't want
23 to have anything in the case that would in any way imperil
24 whatever the verdict is. And my concern is, the
25 testimony, it is hard to say this how something could get
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1 worse from what it was yesterday, but clearly this is
2 incredibly, just emotionally wrenching testimony, and I
3 wanted you to be aware of that. If you need to move at
4 any time in the trial, I want you to feel free to do it.
5 If you want to sit in the back or something, but I just
6 wanted to mention that to you.
7 MS. VanSCHAACK: I am glad you did.
8 THE COURT: The point is, it is one of those
9 things that just overtakes you. Nobody is made of stone,
10 and you can't sit there, and so -- but I am concerned
11 about it, and you are so expressive, and I could see
12 yesterday that it was really getting to you. My concern
13 is that we just need to be aware of that, and I would ask
14 you to be aware of that, and if you need to move, take
15 care of that, okay?
16 MS. VanSCHAACK: At one point I realized I was
17 tearing up, and I was trying to be as discrete as I could
18 about it.
19 THE COURT: I want you to know my secretary was
20 sitting here listening, and was doing the same thing.
21 This is so emotional testimony, I guess we ask so
22 much of lawyers, sometimes it is very, very tough, but I
23 wanted to ask you to be aware of that just so we again are
24 doing everything we can to make sure we are giving these
25 people on all sides a fair trial and then put this to the
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1 jury.
2 Are we all set to go ahead?
3 MR. KLAUS: Yes.
4 THE COURT: Good.
5 Mr. Marshal, would you bring in the jury, please?
6 MR. STERN: Your Honor, we discussed putting
7 those exhibits into evidence.
8 THE COURT: Do you have that list?
9 MR. STERN: I do.
10 THE COURT: Just give me the list, and why don't
11 you announce in front of the jury one by one.
12 MR. STERN: I will simply read this document.
13 THE COURT: Do both sides agree the exhibits
14 listed on the document may be offered and received into
15 evidence?
16 MR. KLAUS: Subject to discussions we had.
17 THE COURT: Objections announced.
18 MR. STERN: Relevancy grounds.
19 THE COURT: Yes. Are you going to be needing
20 these exhibits?
21 MR. STERN: Yes, Your Honor.
22 THE COURT: Okay.
23 (Thereupon, the jury returned to the courtroom.)
24 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, please be
25 seated. Before the Plaintiff's call their next witness,
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1 let me recognize Mr. Stern, if I might, on behalf of the
2 Plaintiffs so you might offer certain exhibits that the
3 lawyers have discussed. And I wonder if you would be good
4 enough to read the list of the exhibits for the record.
5 MR. STERN: Certainly, Your Honor. If it please
6 The Court, the exhibits offered into evidence pursuant to
7 the parties agreement are as follows: Number 32, Number
8 222, Number 223, 338, 341, 342, 380, 393, 448, 454, 493,
9 496, 499, 561, 577, 755, 779, 103, 144, 147, 157, 158,
10 159, 161, 162, 171, 180, 188, 190, 191, 192, 200, 201,
11 211, 214, 329, 333, 334, 337, 363, 379, 459, 534, 542,
12 552, 553, 554, 559, 563, 565, 566, 570, 557, and 713.
13 THE COURT: Any objection to the exhibits
14 announced?
15 MR. KLAUS: Not at this time, but we reserve.
16 THE COURT: Each of these will be received into
17 evidence without objection understanding that the
18 Defendants will have a right to move to strike an exhibit
19 if its relevancy is not established.
20 And I think the other objection is if it is
21 cumulative or duplicative of something else.
22 MR. KLAUS: Correct.
23 THE COURT: Each of these are received and I will
24 entertain a motion to strike if it is appropriate.
25
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1 (Plaintiffs' Exhibits above noted received in
2 evidence without objection.)
3 THE COURT: With that having been said, the
4 Plaintiffs may call your next witness.
5 MR. STERN: The Plaintiffs call Ambassador White.
6 THE COURT: Ambassador White, would you come up
7 to the witness stand and make yourself comfortable?
8 THE WITNESS: Yes, sir.
9 THE COURT: I need to tell you the microphone has
10 a short pickup range. After you are seated, if you pull
11 that chair up to the desk area, you will be more
12 comfortable.
13 Sir, would you raise your right hand?
14 ROBERT WHITE, PLAINTIFFS WITNESS SWORN.
15 THE COURT: Sir, would you please begin by
16 introducing yourself to the members of the jury? Would
17 you tell them your full name, and would you please spell
18 your last name for the court reporter?
19 THE WITNESS: My name is Robert E, White,
20 W-H-I-T-E.
21 THE COURT: Thank you, sir.
22 Counsel you may proceed.
23 MR. STERN: Thank you, Your Honor.
24
25
187
1 DIRECT EXAMINATION
2 BY MR. STERN:
3 Q. Ambassador White, good morning.
4 A. Good morning.
5 Q. Where do you live?
6 A. Alexandria, Virginia.
7 Q. And what do you do for a living?
8 A. President of the Center for International Policy.
9 This is commonly known as a think tank. We concern
10 ourselves with international issues, we write reports, we
11 write books, we write articles, we discuss these issues
12 with Congress and with the executive as the occasion
13 arises.
14 Q. Am I correct that you were formerly United States
15 Ambassador to El Salvador?
16 A. Yes, sir.
17 Q. When did you serve in that post?
18 A. I served from March, 1980 to March, 1981.
19 Q. Who appointed you?
20 THE COURT: Let me stop you for a second if I
21 can.
22 Ambassador White, what was the beginning of your
23 appointment, so we are clear on that?
24 THE WITNESS: I was appointed in 1979.
25 THE COURT: 1979?
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1 THE WITNESS: But the Senate did not choose to
2 act promptly, and during that time I served as Acting
3 Deputy Assistant Secretary of State for responsibility for
4 Central America.
5 THE COURT: It would have run from March, '79 --
6 THE WITNESS: No, it ranged from November of '79,
7 and then I arrived in country in March of '80.
8 THE COURT: What was the closing date you
9 indicated?
10 THE WITNESS: March, '81.
11 THE COURT: Thank you, sir.
12 Let me go back to Mr. Stern.
13 BY MR. STERN:
14 Q. Who appointed you the post of Ambassador?
15 A. President Carter.
16 Q. Were you a career foreign service officer?
17 A. Yes, I was a career diplomat for 25 years, with most
18 of that service in Latin America.
19 Q. Could you tell the jury the extent of the foreign
20 service, prior to posting in El Salvador?
21 A. I joined in 1955. I served in Hong Kong, United
22 Nations, and then I went to Latin America, and I served in
23 Ecuador, Dominican Republic, Honduras. I was director of
24 the Peace Corps for Latin America. I went to Nicaragua,
25 and I was Ambassador to Paraguay. I was deputy Ambassador
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1 to the Organization of American States, and I finished my
2 career as Ambassador to El Salvador.
3 Q. At what point did you leave the foreign service?
4 A. I left foreign service in May, June, 1981.
5 Q. And what was your job after you left the foreign
6 service?
7 A. I became senior associate at the Carnegie Endowment
8 for International Peace.
9 Q. How long did you remain in that job?
10 A. One year.
11 Q. And what did you do after that?
12 A. I became a professor at a small college in Boston, and
13 then I went with the Center for International Policy, and I
14 am still there today.
15 Q. During your time at the Carnegie Endowment and college
16 professor, did you continue to occupy yourself in research
17 and study on Latin America issues?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Did that include El Salvador?
20 A. Yes, it did.
21 Q. In your Latin America postings, did you have occasion
22 to communicate in Spanish?
23 A. Yes.
24 Q. You speak that language fluently?
25 A. Yes.
190
1 Q. Thank you.
2 In the context of your duties in El Salvador, did you
3 travel throughout the country?
4 A. Yes, I did.
5 Q. Do you have a general understanding of the geography
6 of the nation?
7 A. Yes.
8 Q. Yesterday the jury saw a map of the interior of El
9 Salvador. To put things in a bit of perspective, could you
10 explain where El Salvador is in relation to other countries
11 in Central America?
12 A. El Salvador is the smallest country of Central America
13 and it is bounded by Guatemala and by Honduras and
14 Nicaragua, and it is, as I said, a small country. If you
15 take a helicopter up to 9,000 feet you can see the entire
16 country. We are talking about a country the size of
17 Maryland or Massachusetts.
18 Q. In 1980 when you served as Ambassador to El Salvador,
19 what was the population of the country?
20 A. Somewhere four and five million.
21 Q. Now, you mentioned you were nominated to become
22 Ambassador in 1979, and left to take up the post in 1980.
23 In the Inter-American could you tell us what activities you
24 undertook regarding your posting?
25 A. First I functioned, as I said, as the deputy assistant
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1 secretary for Latin America with special emphasis on El
2 Salvador because that was the crisis country. I also
3 received briefings from the experts at the Department of
4 State, Department of Defense, Central Intelligence Agency,
5 Treasury and other agencies of the United States
6 Government, National Security Counsel that were focused on
7 this problem.
8 Q. Would it be fair to say that you had access to the
9 full range of U.S. Government information about El Salvador
10 at that time?
11 A. Yes. I have the highest clearances.
12 Q. In those months before you took up your posting, you
13 engaged in briefings and reviewed information available to
14 you?
15 A. Yes.
16 Q. Broadly speaking, Ambassador White, what were your
17 responsibilities as Ambassador to El Salvador?
18 A. The Ambassador of the United States in any country, in
19 this case El Salvador, has the obligation to carry out
20 United States policy to the best of his or her ability.
21 This -- every Ambassador goes in the country has a list of
22 priorities and his obligation is to carry out those
23 priorities.
24 The Embassy -- the Ambassador doesn't do this alone.
25 In the case of El Salvador, there was a political section,
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1 five, six persons. There was an economic section about the
2 same size, counsel or section charged with the protection
3 of American citizens. Also the agencies that I have just
4 mentioned were also represented in the Embassy.
5 Q. Did you in your Embassy have any responsibilities for
6 gathering information on behalf of the United States in El
7 Salvador?
8 A. Yes. The United States had a very sophisticated
9 communication facilities and so we were very well up to
10 date, up to the minute on what was going on in El Salvador.
11 Q. Was your Embassy the primary means by which the U.S.
12 Government in Washington received its information about
13 events in El Salvador?
14 A. Yes.
15 Q. And did you also have responsibilities for receiving
16 information and instructions from officials in the State
17 Department in Washington in El Salvador?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. What responsibilities, if any, did you have for
20 stating U.S. policy to individuals in El Salvador?
21 A. Well, that, of course, was one of my primary duties,
22 to leave no doubt about what the United States objectives
23 were in El Salvador. This is particularly important
24 because El Salvador was in crisis in 1980.
25 It had been a military dictatorship known for its
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1 cruelty, its brutality. And then on October 15, 1979,
2 there was a revolt by young officers, military officers who
3 were disgusted and angered by what they regarded as
4 unprofessional conduct of the higher ups and they announced
5 that military would no longer be involved in politics, that
6 they would be -- they wanted -- in effect they wanted to
7 midwife a democracy in El Salvador. And that was one of my
8 particular responsibilities, was to try to bring resources
9 to bear to help El Salvador move towards a Democratic form
10 of government.
11 Q. How did you communicate with people in the State
12 Department in Washington when you were serving El Salvador?
13 A. Well, the primary way is by classified telegram. We
14 also had a secure telephone to Washington, and normal
15 business was also occasionally transacted by normal
16 telephone when you were dealing with unclassified
17 information.
18 Q. We are going to be looking at some of the telegrams or
19 cables from that period today. I have a few more questions
20 for you about the cables in particular.
21 Was it part of your responsibility and the
22 responsibilities of members of your Embassy to send and
23 receive those cables?
24 A. Yes, it was.
25 Q. And did the cables contain the investigation and
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1 analysis of events in El Salvador that you dug up?
2 A. Yes. All the officers that I mentioned, service
3 officers, the military attache, Central Intelligence Agency
4 all had their own contacts. We had lines into all levels
5 of El Salvador society. Each officer would report his or
6 her findings, and they would go out on a regular flow of
7 telegrams to keep the department informed of this crisis
8 country.
9 Q. And in light of your responsibilities, you and other
10 members of the Embassy tried to report as accurately as you
11 could?
12 A. That is our primary obligation. Better not to report
13 than report something that is erroneous. A great deal of
14 care went into making certain telegrams and all
15 communications were accurate.
16 Q. Now, as Ambassador in El Salvador, did you have
17 meetings with Salvadoran officials?
18 A. Yes.
19 Q. I want to focus on the military and security forces of
20 El Salvador. Did you have meetings with the
21 representatives of the military and Security forces?
22 A. Yes. The primary contacts for Ambassador are the
23 President and foreign minister. Because of the crisis
24 situation in El Salvador, I met frequently with the
25 Minister of Defense and Minister of Defense here present,
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1 and with other subordinate officials, including commander
2 of the National Guard.
3 Q. We use the phrase military and security forces, I want
4 to investigate those a little bit.
5 What are you referring to when you use the phrase
6 security forces?
7 A. The military forces are the Army, Navy, and Air Force.
8 Security forces are in effect the police, but the police
9 are divided into the National Guard, the National Police
10 and the Treasury Police. The National Guard was
11 responsible primarily for the countryside. The National
12 Police for the urban areas. The Treasury Police started
13 out as a Customs organization but soon became, I think it
14 would be fair to say, a kind of hit squad, a group that had
15 a very bad reputation for murder -- for torture and murder.
16 Q. As Ambassador, was understanding the military forces
17 an important part of your job?
18 A. Yes, sir.
19 Q. Why was that?
20 A. Well, the main problem was the military. What was
21 occurring in El Salvador was a kind of a revolt,
22 generalized uprising against a cruel and arbitrary
23 dictatorship. The United States fears disorder and so what
24 we were working towards was to make a transition from
25 dictatorship to democracy. We realized that this would
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1 take some time, but there were numerous people, people of
2 common sense and good will who were trying to bring about
3 that new Democratic framework.
4 Q. During the time you were Ambassador, did you have
5 personal contact with the individuals in the courtroom to
6 my left, General Garcia and General Vides Casanova?
7 A. I did.
8 Q. If I showed you a picture of those individuals at that
9 time, would you be able to identify them for me?
10 A. I think so.
11 Q. I would like to do that.
12 Ambassador White, can you identify General Garcia for
13 me, please?
14 A. I can't really see it.
15 Q. My apologies.
16 A. The two civilians on the right is Napoleon Duarte, and
17 next to him Dr. Alec, and then Minister of Defense Garcia,
18 and the man on his right is head of the National Guard,
19 Manuel Vides Casanova.
20 MR. KLAUS: Your Honor, maybe if you place it in
21 front of the screen we can see it also.
22 THE WITNESS: I don't think I need to see it.
23 THE COURT: That would be a good location.
24 BY MR. STERN:
25 Q. Ambassador White, do you see General Garcia in the
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1 courtroom today?
2 A. Yes, General Garcia is on the left.
3 Q. Could you identify General Vides Casanova as well.
4 A. He is the gentleman in the middle.