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1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

2 NORTHERN DIVISION

4 JUAN ROMAGOZA ARCE, JANE ) Docket No.

DOE, in her personal capacity ) 99-8364-CIV-HURLEY

5 as Personal Representative of )

the ESTATE OF BABY DOE, )

6 )

Plaintiffs, )

7 vs. ) West Palm Beach, Florida

) July 2, 2002

8 JOSE GUILLERMO GARCIA, an )

individual, CARLOS EUGENIO VIDES)

9 CASANOVA, an individual, and ) VOLUME 5

DOES 1 through 50, inclusive, )

10 )

Defendants. )

11 _______________________________ x

14 COURT REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF

TESTIMONY AND PROCEEDINGS HAD BEFORE

15 JUDGE DANIEL T. K. HURLEY

17 APPEARANCES:

18 For the Plaintiffs: JAMES GREEN, ESQ.

PETER STERN, ESQ.

19 BETH VanSCHAACK, ESQ.

20 For Defendant: KURT KLAUS, ESQ.

Court Reporter: Pauline A. Stipes, C.S.R., C.M.

24 PAULINE A. STIPES

Official Reporter

25 U. S. District Court

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1 THE COURT: Good morning, everybody.

2 Mr. Marshal, would you bring in the jury, please?

3 I wanted to alert counsel I have passed out what

4 we've listed as draft one, and you will notice there are

5 three versions of the command responsibility. One from

6 the version that was given in the Ford case, a second that

7 was the Plaintiffs' request, and a third that is another

8 draft. We can talk about this later.

9 (Thereupon, the jury returned to the courtroom.)

10 THE COURT: Let me turn to the Plaintiffs and ask

11 you to call your next witness.

12 MR. STERN: May it please The Court, the

13 Plaintiffs call Michael McClintock.

14 THE COURT: Mr. McClintock, if you would come up

15 to the witness stand and make yourself comfortable.

16 I need to tell you that the microphone there has

17 a short pickup range, so if you pull that chair up to the

18 desk area, you will be more comfortable.

19 Sir, would you begin by raising your right hand?

20 MICHAEL McCLINTOCK, PLAINTIFFS' WITNESS SWORN.

21 THE COURT: Sir, would you please begin by

22 introducing yourself to the members of the jury? Would

23 you tell them your full name, and would you please spell

24 your last name for the court reporter?

25 THE WITNESS: My name is Michael McClintock,

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1 M-C-C-L-I-N-T-O-C-K.

2 THE COURT: Thank you.

3 Counsel, you may proceed.

4 DIRECT EXAMINATION

5 BY MR. STERN:

6 Q. Good morning, Mr. McClintock.

7 Where do you live?

8 A. I live in New York.

9 Q. Are you here this morning to testify about the amnesty

10 practice of reporting human rights abuses to the Government

11 in El Salvador?

12 A. Yes, I am.

13 Q. What is your profession, Mr. McClintock?

14 A. I am a human rights monitor and advocate and I have

15 been working for non profits in this field for a little

16 more than 28 years.

17 Q. Where do you currently work?

18 A. I am working for the Lawyer's Committee For Human

19 Rights based in New York.

20 Q. What do you do there?

21 A. I am deputy program director responsible for the

22 organization's overall program which looks at justice

23 issues, workers' rights, refugee protection, a full range

24 of human rights issues.

25 THE COURT: Could I ask you to stop for just a

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1 minute?

2 BY MR. STERN:

3 Q. How long have you worked at the Lawyer's Committee For

4 Humans Rights?

5 A. I am coming into my fourth week right now.

6 Q. Where did you work before the Lawyer's Committee?

7 A. Since 1994, I worked for Human Rights Watch.

8 Q. What does Human Rights Watch do?

9 A. Human Rights is actually the largest human rights

10 based organization, and covers actually a broader range of

11 human rights issues than the Lawyer's Committee. I was

12 deputy program director there and had particular

13 responsibility -- I was supervisor for Africa, Europe,

14 Central Asia, and four years for the Middle East. I

15 covered children's rights and often stepped in and worked

16 with the women's rights division, a full spectrum human

17 rights organization.

18 Q. To give us a little more detail, what in particular

19 does human rights do in the regional areas that you

20 mentioned in general terms?

21 A. One example was -- that I was very much involved in

22 was setting up a program with Russian Partner

23 Organizations, local, non governmental human rights groups

24 to look at torture in the former U.S.S.R.

25 MR. KLAUS: Objection; relevancy.

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1 THE COURT: I will overrule the objection. You

2 may proceed.

3 THE WITNESS: We were looking for torture in the

4 criminal justice system, not torture persistent, but

5 torture in general. The book was on torture in the

6 Russian criminal justice system, a series of discussions

7 with Russian officials, and we think some progress towards

8 stopping these practices in the Soviet Union.

9 Another example, I spent a lot of time working on

10 Central African disasters. We set up field officers in

11 Burundi and Rwanda. We produced I think the best most

12 comprehensive study in the genocide in Rwanda, and we had

13 people on the ground. We tried -- one of the major

14 concerns in Central Africa was keeping our counterparts

15 alive. We were very much working with local human rights

16 activists who were trying to monitor human rights abuse,

17 and to take action.

18 BY MR. STERN:

19 Q. Where did you work before you went to Human Rights

20 Watch?

21 A. For the 20 years before Human Rights Watch I worked

22 for Amnesty International. I worked mainly out of London

23 where the international headquarters is based. I spent a

24 lot of time traveling, but the home base was London.

25 Q. Were you working for Amnesty International in London

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1 in the time period 1979 through 1983?

2 A. That is right, I started in 1974.

3 Q. In the '79 through '83 time period, what were your

4 specific responsibilities at Amnesty International?

5 A. I was a researcher on Latin America with special

6 responsibility for Central America.

7 Q. Would you tell us more about what your job

8 responsibilities involved in that capacity?

9 A. Amnesty is a membership organization, it has a million

10 members now and had half a million members in 1983, with

11 national offices in 41 countries. The strongest sections

12 were United States and some of the European sections.

13 My job was to be part of the research department, in

14 what Amnesty calls research department, was about both fact

15 finding and about action. Generating membership action

16 about people in trouble.

17 So, what -- I was hired because I knew the region, I

18 spoke Spanish, and I was someone who could work with local

19 human rights organizations, partners of amnesty groups to

20 identify prisoners of conscious -- political prisoners who

21 Amnesty should have been working for to look at patterns of

22 human rights abuse such as torture.

23 I was a fact finder, but I was also someone who is

24 expected to prepare material for a membership, and for a

25 public through which attention could be brought to really

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1 severe human rights problems.

2 Q. We are going to be dealing with a lot of questions

3 today about Amnesty International. Could you take a step

4 back and tell the jury when that organization was founded,

5 and what the objectives of that organization are?

6 A. Dates back to 1961 when a British barrister Peter

7 Benenson had a group of friends, some of them lawyers, a

8 lot of ordinary people, and was very much concerned about

9 what he read in the paper, newspaper every morning. And he

10 read about Russian dissidents being locked up for what they

11 said, or sometimes for what they didn't say even. He was

12 concerned with imprisonment of --

13 MR. KLAUS: Objection; lack of personal

14 knowledge.

15 THE COURT: I will overrule the objection. You

16 may proceed.

17 THE WITNESS: He was concerned with imprisonment

18 in the colonial territories of Portugal, United Kingdom

19 itself -- he is a British lawyer -- and around the world.

20 And he decided that there were a lot of people -- when

21 people were imprisoned unjustly because of their ideas,

22 people who hadn't advocated violence, people who were

23 simply in jail for their ideas, there should be an

24 international movement to call for their release.

25 And he was a great organizer. He wrote a full

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1 page article which he published in the London Press and

2 simultaneously in the U.S., in France, and Germany, and I

3 think in several other countries which basically set out

4 the problem. There is a problem of what he called

5 prisoners of conscience, people detained for their

6 conscientious views all over the world in all kinds of

7 political situations, left and right, middle,

8 undetermined.

9 And he called for people to meet together -- he

10 called a meeting, basically, through the newspapers, and

11 within a year there were little groups called Amnesty

12 International, groups all over North America and Western

13 Europe. And you could say in a nutshell what did Amnesty

14 stand for, I really came into the picture in 1970 when I

15 first started dealing with Amnesty before I was employed

16 by Amnesty.

17 You could say Amnesty International calls for the

18 release of prisoners of conscience, people who have not

19 used or advocated violence and calls for an end of torture

20 all over the world. Those were the basic plans, and from

21 there amnesty grew until it is what it is today. It is

22 over a million members. I think over 100 countries have

23 Amnesty members, and it seems to work.

24 Q. What is the structure of Amnesty International as an

25 organization?

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1 A. There is one international headquarters, and that is

2 in London. Today it has about 340 staff. When I started