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1 IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT

SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF FLORIDA

2 NORTHERN DIVISION

4 JUAN ROMAGOZA ARCE, JANE ) Docket No.

DOE, in her personal capacity ) 99-8364-CIV-HURLEY

5 as Personal Representative of )

the ESTATE OF BABY DOE, )

6 )

Plaintiffs, )

7 vs. ) West Palm Beach, Florida

) July 8, 2002

8 JOSE GUILLERMO GARCIA, an )

individual, CARLOS EUGENIO VIDES)

9 CASANOVA, an individual, and ) VOLUME 7

DOES 1 through 50, inclusive, )

10 )

Defendants. )

11 _______________________________ x

14 COURT REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF

TESTIMONY AND PROCEEDINGS HAD BEFORE

15 JUDGE DANIEL T. K. HURLEY

17 APPEARANCES:

18 For the Plaintiffs: JAMES GREEN, ESQ.

PETER STERN, ESQ.

19 BETH VanSCHAACK, ESQ.

20 For Defendant: KURT KLAUS, ESQ.

Court Reporter: Pauline A. Stipes, C.S.R., C.M.

24 PAULINE A. STIPES

Official Reporter

25 U. S. District Court

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1 THE COURT: All right. Ladies and gentlemen, we

2 all have our computers coordinated and working. That is

3 fine.

4 In the effort to get started, it occurred to me

5 after the fact that I neglected to administer the oath to

6 Mr. Icaza.

7 Now, we have had the benefit of having three

8 court interpreters throughout the process, two of whom are

9 Federally certified court interpreters.

10 As I understand it, there is a national

11 examination given. The problem is, it has not been given

12 in many, many years. We have a real problem in trying to

13 have people be able to be certified under that.

14 We have had the benefit in our trial of

15 Mr. Francis Icaza, who is the director of Advanced

16 Translating Corporation. I need to administer the oath,

17 and what I would do is administer the oath and make it

18 retroactive, that is, everything translated is retroactive

19 and move forward. Is that agreeable?

20 MR. KLAUS: That is agreeable.

21 THE COURT: Normally The Court does not interpret

22 the oath to others not Federally certified. I did not

23 intend to do that because the other folks have received

24 the oath as part of their certification. Again, is that

25 agreeable to both parties?

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1 (Interpreter sworn.)

2 THE COURT: Thank you very much.

3 Are we all set now and ready to proceed?

4 Mr. Marshal, would you bring in the jury, please?

5 (Thereupon, the jury returned to the courtroom.)

6 THE COURT: Ladies and gentlemen, please be

7 seated.

8 Good morning, everybody. I hope you all had a

9 nice weekend. Not too rainy.

10 As you know, when we stopped prior to our last

11 recess, we are still in the Plaintiffs' case in chief, so

12 I am going to turn now, if I might, to Plaintiffs' counsel

13 and allow the Plaintiffs to call their next witness.

14 Mr. Stern?

15 MR. STERN: May it please The Court. Plaintiff's

16 call professor Terry Karl.

17 THE COURT: Professor Karl.

18 By the way, the pointer is on the witness stand

19 if you want to remove that so it won't be in the

20 professor's way.

21 Professor, would you please sit down and make

22 yourself comfortable? I need to tell you the microphone

23 has a short pickup range. I think if you pull that

24 closer, you will be more comfortable and you will be able

25 to sit back.

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1 If you would raise your right hand.

2 TERRY KARL, PLAINTIFFS' WITNESS SWORN.

3 THE COURT: Professor, would you be good enough

4 starting out introducing yourself to the members of the

5 jury? And would you tell them your full name and spell

6 your last name for the court reporter?

7 THE WITNESS: Terry Lynn Karl, K-A-R-L,

8 T-E-R-R-Y.

9 THE COURT: Thank you so much.

10 Let me turn to Mr. Stern.

11 DIRECT EXAMINATION

12 BY MR. STERN:

13 Q. Good morning. Where are you from?

14 A. I am from Missouri.

15 Q. Where do you teach?

16 A. I teach at Stanford university.

17 Q. What do you teach?

18 A. Latin America politics, Central America politics,

19 politics of military rights, how militaries rule,

20 transitions to democracy.

21 Q. Tell us about your educational background.

22 A. I got my Ph.D. at Stanford University in 1982. I

23 subsequently became a professor at Harvard University where

24 I worked during the 1980's, and I returned to my alma mater

25 in 1986 where I am currently professor of political

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1 science.

2 Q. You mentioned a couple areas of specialization

3 already. Would you walk through them one by one in terms

4 of your areas of expertise?

5 A. Well, I work on several things. I have been for 12

6 years director for the Center of Latin America Studies in

7 Stanford. In that capacity we are expected to know about

8 areas in Latin America, particularly areas in the news or

9 that are important where we may have to publicly represent

10 the university.

11 My own, one of my own areas of specialty has been,

12 really since 1979, Central America, and particularly El

13 Salvador, which is the country I have written the most

14 about in Central America.

15 Q. Does your expertise include politics and political

16 history of El Salvador?

17 A. Yes, it does.

18 Q. Have you had an opportunity to study military

19 institutions in El Salvador in the past generation?

20 A. Yes, I studied them extensively in part because of my

21 own interest about how militaries rule in Latin America,

22 but also because I have been requested to do so by members

23 of the U.S. Congress, and by members of our Defense

24 Department.

25 Q. Would you tell us more about your relation to the

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1 members of Congress and Defense Department in regard to El

2 Salvador, please?

3 A. Well, El Salvador, as you remember, was a major

4 foreign policy issue in the early 1980's. It was a center

5 of a whole series of debates in the U.S. Congress. I was

6 asked by the Chairman of the House Subcommittee on

7 Hemisphere of Affairs -- this is a subcommittee in Congress

8 that looks at Latin America the most, and responsible for

9 the region of Latin America. I was asked by the Chairman

10 to advise him on what was happening in El Salvador in

11 particular.

12 There was conflicting information. If I could go to

13 El Salvador and try to find out for myself and begin an

14 analysis what was happening in that country. I started

15 going to El Salvador in the early 1980's and I have

16 continued to go there over the last 20 years.

17 Q. What was the original reason for you going to El

18 Salvador?

19 A. Well, the original reason was several fold. Actually.

20 I was working in Venezuela earlier and I met a number of

21 Salvadorans living in exile, including Jos‚ Napolean Duarte

22 who became president of El Salvador. And their stories

23 began to interest me, and the fact they were returning in

24 1979 made me feel I had some kind of an entre in terms of

25 getting interviews.

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1 And I was assistant professor of government at

2 Harvard, and I was getting constant calls from the press,

3 from Congress because of that position, and later on from

4 immigration authorities, from immigration judges, et

5 cetera, because there was really nobody who knew very much

6 about this country in the United States.

7 And I realized because of these calls that I wanted to

8 know more, and so I started to go under the auspices of

9 Harvard, under the auspices of international affairs in

10 Harvard, which sent me on my first trip.

11 And I did my first interviews. I subsequently went

12 back a number of times through the '80's. I actually don't

13 remember how many times I have been to El Salvador. And I

14 also began to investigate a series of events that happened

15 in El Salvador.

16 I think the first serious investigations I did were

17 along the Salvadoran/Honduran border. El Salvador borders

18 with Honduras. And there was a series of peasant massacres

19 that happened around 1980, and my first trips were actually

20 to look at the conflicting reports about those massacres.

21 Q. When you went to El Salvador, did you interview people

22 from Salvadoran society?

23 A. I did.

24 Q. Who in particular, what types of people did you

25 interview?

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1 A. I interviewed anybody who I could get to talk to me.

2 I interviewed the leaders of the armed forces, many of the

3 key colonels in the armed forces. I interviewed all

4 presidents in El Salvador from 1982 to the present,

5 actually. I interviewed the parties, heads of the parties

6 of the right. I interviewed heads of the parties to the

7 left. I interviewed church officials, I interviewed

8 officials of the Lutheran Church which were very involved

9 there. I interviewed Jewish aid agencies.

10 I interviewed peasants. I interviewed head of labor

11 unions, I interviewed head of peasant associations, head of

12 human rights groups. I actually interviewed members who

13 were acknowledged participants in death squads. I traveled

14 with all presidential candidates in El Salvador. I am sure

15 I am forgetting somebody. I did extensive interviewing.

16 Q. Did you find people were generally willing to talk to

17 you?

18 A. I was, I believe, the only -- certainly the only

19 American academic there at the time. The only other people

20 who were there were journalists, and journalists were not

21 always welcome in El Salvador. In fact, more journalists

22 were killed in El Salvador than the entire Vietnam war.

23 They had difficulty getting information, particularly the

24 beginning. That eased up later.

25 Q. When you say the beginning?

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1 A. Particularly 1980, '81, which was the most repressive

2 period of time in El Salvador.