454 UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT EASTERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA HON. OLIVER W. WANGER J. DOE, ) No. CIV-F-03-6249 OWW ) Plaintiff, ) Plaintiff's Application for ) Judgment by Default, Day 4 vs. ) ) Sealed Proceedings, Pgs. 525 ALVARO RAFAEL SARAVIA; and ) to 532, filed under Separate DOES 1-10, inclusive, ) Cover ) Defendants. ) ) Fresno, California Friday, August 27, 2004 REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS Vol. 4, pgs. 454 to 627, inclusive REPORTED BY: PEGGY J. CRAWFORD, RMR-CRR, Official Reporter 455 APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL: For the Plaintiff: HELLER EHRMAN WHITE & MCAULIFFE LLP 333 Bush Street San Francisco, CA 94104-2878 BY: NICHOLAS W. van AELSTYN RUSSELL P. COHEN CENTER FOR JUSTICE & ACCOUNTABILITY 870 Market Street, Ste. 684 San Francisco, CA 94102 BY: MATTHEW J. EISENBRANDT CAROLYN PATTY BLUM Also Present: ALMUNDENA BERNABEU 456 INDEX PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES: ESTHER CHAVEZ 457 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COHEN 458 FRANCISCO ACOSTA 474 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. COHEN 475 WALTER GUERRA 502 DIRECT EXAMINATION BY MR. EISENBRANDT 503 TERRY LYNN KARL 533 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed) 533 BY MR. Van AELSTYN Pages 525-532 Sealed by Order of the Court ***** EXHIBITS ***** PLAINTIFF'S Received 63 through 66 519 78 through 82 522 223 539 211 through 215 556 148 571 ***** 457 1 Friday, August 27, 2004 Fresno, California 2 9:00 a.m. 3 THE COURT: Good morning. I apologize for getting 4 started late. We had other cases we had to handle. We are 5 ready to continue with testimony. 6 Mr. Van Aelstyn, you may proceed. 7 MR. Van AELSTYN: Thank you, your Honor. Before we 8 begin with testimony, there is one small housekeeping matter I 9 would like to address, and I apologize, but when we went 10 through the series of exhibits from the Canonization Office 11 yesterday from Ms. Hernández and we had that whole series of 12 exhibits, I apologize, it was my mistake, the last five in the 13 series were not actually from the Canonization Office. Those 14 were documents obtained from Diario de Hoy, the newspaper 15 archives that Professor Karl had found. 16 They were similar in a sense that they contained 17 threat documents, but they were from the archives of the 18 newspaper. 19 THE COURT: Well, let's reserve the ruling, then, 20 until Professor Karl resumes the stand. 21 MR. Van AELSTYN: Thank you, your Honor. I 22 apologize. 23 MR. COHEN: Good morning, your Honor. We would like 24 to call as our next witness Ms. Esther Chavez. 25 ESTHER CHAVEZ, CHAVEZ - D 458 1 called as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiff, having been 2 first duly sworn, testified as follows: 3 THE CLERK: Please state your name for the record. 4 THE WITNESS: Esther Chavez. 5 THE CLERK: Thank you. You may take the stand. 6 THE COURT: You may proceed. 7 DIRECT EXAMINATION 8 BY MR. COHEN: 9 Q. Good morning, Ms. Chavez. 10 A. Good morning. 11 Q. Can you tell me where you were born? 12 A. In San Salvador. 13 Q. Where do you live now? 14 A. I live Elizabeth, New Jersey. 15 Q. When were you born? 16 A. January 2nd, 1954. 17 Q. Can you tell us something about your family, how many 18 brothers and sisters? 19 A. I came from a big family. I have six brothers and one 20 sister, and they are very Catholic. 21 Q. And among your brothers and sisters, where do you fall? 22 A. I am the oldest of the eight. 23 Q. You mentioned that your family is very Catholic. Were you 24 raised in a religious environment? 25 A. Yes, I was raised Catholic and I went to Catholic school. CHAVEZ - D 459 1 Q. And after your Catholic education, did you do any 2 university education? 3 A. Yes, I do. I went to the National University in San 4 Salvador for -- the first major was sociology and then later 5 on, education. 6 Q. And did you complete a degree at the National University? 7 A. No, I was not able to complete my education because of the 8 political situation during the 70s. The university was closed 9 very often, and that's why I was not able to finish one of 10 those degrees. 11 Q. While you were attending the National University, were you 12 working as well? 13 A. Yes, I was. I was working, first, at the Health 14 Department of San Salvador, and then later on, as a teacher. 15 Q. And where were you working as a teacher? 16 A. I had my own day care center in San Salvador. 17 Q. And prior to that, did you work in any religious schools? 18 A. Yes, I did. I went to school at the Colegio La Ascuncíon 19 in San Salvador and in 1978, I also worked there as a 20 librarian. 21 Q. You worked there as a librarian? 22 A. Yes. 23 Q. And who was it that you were working with at the Colegio 24 La Ascencíon? 25 A. I was working with a Sister Ines. I was working with her. CHAVEZ - D 460 1 Q. And what can you tell us about Sister Ines? 2 A. I would say that she is my mentor and she is the reason I 3 would say I am here because, through her, I was able to meet 4 Monseñor Romero. 5 Q. And where is Sister Ines today? 6 A. She is in Spain. 7 Q. Let me ask you, when you were growing up, did you 8 personally observe any changes in the Catholic Church? 9 A. Yes. First, when I was a child, a young person, the 10 Masses were in Latin, and then later on, when Vaticano 11 Segundo -- Vatincan Second, came about, the Church changed and 12 the Mass was no longer in Latin, it was now in Spanish, and 13 people, the lay persons were able to participate. 14 Q. As you were growing up, how did you feel about the changes 15 in the Church from the Latin Mass to a Spanish Mass? 16 A. I would say that that gave me the opportunity to 17 participate more directly and also to be involved with the 18 changes that happened in the Church. 19 Q. And were there other changes going on aside from the Mass 20 being conducted in Spanish? 21 A. Yes, later on, after Vaticano Segundo, that was in the 22 60s, in the 70s, there was the change in Medellin, and that 23 was the Theologia de la Liberacíon -- 24 THE REPORTER: I'm sorry, you'll have to -- 25 BY MR. COHEN: CHAVEZ - D 461 1 Q. "Liberation theology," in English? 2 A. Yes. 3 Q. And what sorts of changes did that bring about in the 4 Church? 5 A. First, I will say that I was able to participate in one of 6 the base communities that developed in the neighborhood that I 7 was living in San Salvador, and this gave me the opportunity 8 not only to learn the changes, but also to practice the 9 changes in the Church. 10 Q. You mentioned base communities. Can you describe that for 11 us? 12 A. Base communities were developed and not only in the 13 countryside, but also in the poor neighborhoods in San 14 Salvador. And I was living near by one of the poor 15 neighborhoods in San Salvador that is called Colonia Morazan. 16 Q. And could you tell me what the purpose or objective of 17 these base communities was? 18 A. It was not only to learn the change in the Church and also 19 to learn what the documents were saying, but also to practice 20 what the changes were in the Church. That it was -- it is not 21 only what the priests and others in the Church were saying, 22 but also to live what the documents and Vaticano Segundo and 23 Medellin were saying, to be and work with the poor. 24 Q. Maybe you can tell us a little bit about how these 25 communities came to be formed. Who helped to organize them? CHAVEZ - D 462 1 A. Because it was not that many priests during that time that 2 were able to be in each parish, the changes were that lay 3 people were able to do and practice some of the service, and 4 we have what is called in Spanish, "celebracion de la 5 palabra" and -- "celebration of the work." And that's how we 6 were able to get together. 7 And the base communities were sharing the need of the 8 community. Like an example, I'm going to give it, is that in 9 the group that we have, in our community was a lot of single 10 mothers. Some of them were not able to go to work because 11 they didn't have anybody to take care of their children. Then 12 the elders of the community, other women, were willing to help 13 those young women to go to work and take care of their 14 children. 15 Q. So it sounds as if the base Christian community wasn't 16 just involved in carrying out religious ceremonies? 17 A. Yes. It's not only to carry out the Christian, but also 18 to practice what the Christian documents were saying, that it 19 was help each other. 20 Q. In terms of practicing what the Christian documents said, 21 how exactly did you do that? 22 A. I was one of the persons who had an education. Most of 23 the other people didn't have the opportunity to go to school. 24 And I was helping them in reading some of the documents that 25 they received and also trying to help them. CHAVEZ - D 463 1 And in 1978, when I met Monseñor Romero directly, I 2 was able to develop and go and serve the communities around 3 and see what was the need. 4 And the need there was to have a day care center. 5 And that's why, in 1979, I opened a day care center in the 6 area of Morazan. 7 Q. Ms. Chavez, I want to ask you more questions about the day 8 care. But first let me ask you a little bit more about how 9 the base communities came together for religious ceremonies. 10 A. They, as I said earlier, because of the need, that we 11 don't have that many priests, people got together and began to 12 work together. And that was in the 70s. 13 And one of the reasons that people were able to get 14 together, it was not only because the need of the -- that 15 there was not that many priests, but also the situation. 16 People want to help each other. 17 Q. So were some of the members of the communities carrying 18 out some of the responsibilities that used to be only carried 19 out by the priests? 20 A. In some ways, yes. 21 Q. Let's talk about your first contact with Monseñor Romero. 22 A. Okay. The first contact with Monseñor Romero was in '78, 23 and it was not directly with him, it was not person to person. 24 My first contact was through one of the homilies. In the 25 middle of the year, YSAX, the radio station, the Catholic CHAVEZ - D 464 1 radio station that transmitted Monseñor Romero's message, was 2 bombed. 3 And I was asked by Sister Ines to transcript one of 4 the homilies of that Sunday. And typing the homily, listening 5 to him directly, and it was only, like I say, me and him, I 6 got a message that was very powerful. 7 And since then, I was volunteer with Monseñor 8 Maldenez (phonetic) to help in any way that I can. And 9 because of the situation was very danger, the congregation 10 decide to send Sister Ines back to Spain. And I was not happy 11 with that idea, and I felt at that time that it was not right 12 for the congregation to send someone back because of her 13 support to Monseñor Romero's work. 14 And I went and complained not only to the director of 15 the school, but also to the supervisor of the congregation. I 16 said that that was not right. "You are not practice what you 17 are preaching." 18 And they -- I was also working at the school, and 19 they say, "Okay, if you are not happy, then you are going to 20 be laid off." And they laid off me. 21 And after that, I called Monseñor and asked for a 22 meeting with him. And that was the first direct contact, 23 almost November 1978. 24 And he was a very open and a humble man, and very -- 25 a person with his feet on the ground. And he asked me what I CHAVEZ - D 465 1 want to do. 2 And I told him that I was -- I want to continue the 3 part of the work that I was doing, but at the same time, I was 4 a little bit lost because Sister Ines, who was, as I say, my 5 mentor, was leaving. 6 Monseñor told me you have to see what you want to do 7 and also see around you what is the need. You should go back 8 to your community, to the area where you are living, and see 9 what you can do. What is the need there. 10 And I went back. I asked one of my brothers if he 11 was willing to help me to do a survey in the community, in the 12 area, and he helped me. And we went around; the most need at 13 that time, it was a day care center. 14 And I told Monseñor again, and that was getting close 15 to Christmas, and he said to me, "Okay, then, you have your 16 answer. If you really want to work with the poor, that's what 17 you should do. You go and have the day care center." 18 And I explained to him that my grandmother had land 19 in that area and also a building, that she was willing to give 20 me the building to have the day care center. 21 And he said, "Okay. When you have the day care 22 center working, on one of my visits to Morazan, I would like 23 to go and visit the day care center." 24 And in January of 1979, we begin with just the 25 children and two other people helped me, my brother and CHAVEZ - D 466 1 another friend, who also was a student at the university, and 2 part of the work that we did in the day care center was not 3 only to take care of the children, but also to develop a 4 relationship with the parents of the children. The majority 5 of them were single. 6 Q. How did you do that, Ms. Chavez? How did you develop a 7 relationship with the parents? 8 A. Because, first, they knew me when I went to survey them, 9 and they choose to register the children in the day care 10 center. And I wanted them to feel that they were contributing 11 also to their children's education. And we talked about how 12 much people were able to pay for. It was not a free day care 13 center. And it was something that they were paying. And I 14 charged five colones. That is less than 50 cents a month. 15 And they also participated in the different 16 activities to try to raise the money for the day care center 17 because the other -- we have a stipend, I would say. It was 18 not a salary. 19 Q. You said five colones a month. How much is that in U.S. 20 dollars? 21 A. Less than 50 cents. 22 Q. A month? 23 A. A month, uh-huh. 24 Q. So in addition to running the day care center, what other 25 activities were you involved in in your community? CHAVEZ - D 467 1 A. I continued to be a part of the base community and also 2 going to the university. 3 Q. Did there come a time in your base community when you 4 could no longer have your meetings openly? 5 A. Yes. It was when the President passed a law that it was 6 illegal to have meetings or gatherings or demonstrations, that 7 the base community has to continue our meetings in different 8 houses. And it was no longer that open meeting, because it 9 was not safe. 10 Q. And how did you go about meeting after that, or did you 11 stop? 12 A. We continued to meet, but it was in private, different 13 people's homes. It was not like when we have it in the 14 school, anyone who wanted, well, they were welcome to come, 15 but it was not safe for us during those days to have open 16 meetings. 17 Q. And what sorts of issues were being discussed at these 18 meetings that the President had banned? 19 A. We were sharing daily life, the dangers, and during those 20 time, and the persecution was getting more and people were 21 afraid. All the peoples in different base communities were 22 captured and disappeared. And we were afraid that something 23 like that could happen to one of us. 24 Q. Were there any religious ceremonies as well? 25 A. Yes, we have Mass, when the priest was able to come, we CHAVEZ - D 468 1 have it. 2 Q. Now, do you consider that these activities that you were 3 involved in in your community were political activities? 4 A. Not at all. I was doing what the Christian is supposed to 5 be doing. I never thought that that was political. 6 Q. Ms. Chavez, for how long did you run the day care center? 7 A. Only for a year and a half. Because in 1980, after 8 Monseñor Romero was killed, in August, the popular movement 9 called for a national strike, and two gentlemen were killed on 10 the day care center's property. 11 Q. Can you tell us how it came to be that two men were killed 12 on the day care center property? 13 A. They were looking for a safe place, and they saw that they 14 might be able to be safe on the day care. But this was a big 15 building, but it was not a concrete building. It was made by 16 wood. And then early the day of the national strike, the 17 helicopter and the army went to different neighborhoods in San 18 Salvador. And this is how these people were killed. 19 Q. Were you involved in the strike? 20 A. No. What happened is that when they announced, we had a 21 meeting with the parents and the teachers at the day care 22 center, and we decided it was not -- the day care center was 23 not really a safe place. 24 Then it was not that we were supporting the strike, 25 it was for safety reasons that we decide to close. And we say CHAVEZ - D 469 1 that we are going to close the first day, because we expect 2 that it was going to be one day, but after the first day, 3 because what happened, the day care center, we were forced to 4 close. 5 Q. And the men who were killed on the property, were they 6 involved in the strike? 7 A. Yes, they were. 8 Q. And what were they doing? 9 A. They were carrying some arms and shooting to the 10 helicopter that it was -- that followed them. And I think 11 that's why they got killed. 12 Q. And did you allow them to come into the day care center? 13 A. No, I was not in the day care center. My parents had a 14 house a few blocks from where the day care center was and 15 that's their house, and I was there. I was not at the day 16 care center. 17 Q. Were you aware of anybody else being killed on that day? 18 A. Yes. Four more mens were killed inside my family's land 19 in one of the hills. Four men were killed there too. 20 Q. And you said the day care center did not open again after 21 that day? 22 A. Yes. Because when the Treasury Police came to the day 23 care center around 2:00 o'clock that day to recognize the 24 parents, they were asking who was the owner of the day care 25 center. And because we were not there, someone went to my CHAVEZ - D 470 1 parent's house and told us that the Treasury Police were 2 asking who was the owner. 3 And my father went to the place and told them that he 4 was the owner. He was captured that day and taken to the 5 headquarters and he was captured for three days. 6 He was released on the condition that I have to 7 testify saying that it was not true that my name was in the 8 list that the government had. And my father was told that 9 they were not looking for him, they were looking for me. 10 And -- 11 Q. Can you explain to us why you believe the Treasury Police 12 or why you understand the Treasury Police were looking for 13 you? 14 A. It's not only what I understand, it's what my father was 15 told by the National Police. Because after he was transferred 16 to the National Police, and the National Police told him that 17 I was teaching children to be guerillas, and I had been 18 working with Monseñor Romero. And that's -- was the reason 19 that they were looking for me. 20 And my father was able to be released because at that 21 time, my family had some economic resources. They were able 22 to pay for a lawyer and also the connection that my family had 23 with the Church. Monseñor Rivera y Damas was able to 24 participate in my father's release. And also a lawyer were 25 representing the family. But I say I'm glad that he's still CHAVEZ - D 471 1 alive. 2 Q. And once you found that that they were looking for you, 3 what did you do? 4 A. The day that they captured my father, I have to (The 5 witness became emotional) leave my children behind with my 6 family and went in hiding. And first, in San Salvador for a 7 few days, and then when my father were released, my family 8 send me to Guatemala, to a friend's house that was in 9 Guatemala, and I was there until my family was able to obtain 10 a tourist visa for me and my children. And I left the country 11 in 1980, in October of 1980. 12 Q. And when, at that time, did you think you would go back? 13 A. When I left, I have mixed feeling regarding that I was in 14 some way betraying my community. Because of my family's 15 condition, I was able to leave the country. But the majority 16 of the people that was involved, they didn't have that chance. 17 And that's why I felt that I was betraying my community and my 18 belief. 19 And I was hoping that in two years, I would be able 20 to go back and continue to work. But two years came to be 21 four, six, and many years. I was not able to go back to 22 El Salvador until 1987. 23 And I went to get my green card and because I didn't 24 have a legal status, I applied for political asylum when I 25 arrived, but two years later, it was denied. CHAVEZ - D 472 1 In '87, I was able to go back through a labor 2 certificate that I was working a day care center in Groway 3 (phonetic), that was the city that I arrived in 1980, and they 4 helped me in getting my immigration into a labor certificate. 5 And I went there only for two weeks, because in '87, 6 the situation was, I would say, worse than when I left in 7 1980. And my family didn't feel that it was safe for me for 8 them to be there longer than what I need to be. 9 Q. So when you returned to El Salvador, you were there only 10 two weeks? 11 A. Yes. Only two weeks. 12 Q. Have you been back since? 13 A. Yes. Because one of the ways that I continue to be 14 involved with El Salvador was through, first, trying to stop 15 the military aid to El Salvador and also with a national 16 network of U.S. and Salvador sister city, I am a part of that. 17 And I was able to go back more, I would say, with 18 less fears in 1990. And I traveled to Chalatenango and were 19 looking for communities to develop a sister relation between 20 our city and Chalatenango. And I was able to go with another 21 person, with a U.S. citizen, a North American, and that's why 22 I felt that I was more safe for me to go. 23 Q. Can you tell me a little bit more about your work in the 24 United States with Salvadorans? 25 A. I worked for American Friends Service Committee, a Quaker CHAVEZ - D 473 1 organization. And I am a community organizer and legal 2 assistant. And I have been working with the immigrant 3 community. 4 At the beginning, I was more focused with the 5 Salvadoran community, but later on, between 1988 to 1994, I 6 was the Director of the Refugee Center in Plainfield, New 7 Jersey, and given the opportunity to provide legal service not 8 only for Salvadorans, but at that time other Central Americans 9 also who need the service. 10 And part of the work that I do now is organizing the 11 immigrant community in New Jersey. 12 Q. What is the impact on you in your life here in the United 13 States now of your connection with Monseñor Romero? 14 A. I said it was an honor, but also a responsibility, to know 15 Monseñor Romero, because he teach us to work with those that 16 don't have voice and also to work for justice. It doesn't 17 matter where you are. 18 And that's what I am trying to continue to do. And 19 try to live -- keep his legacy alive. And every year, I been 20 having a service to commemorate his death. And it is a 21 responsibility that I'm trying to keep and live with that, 22 helping those who need help in the United States in the 23 immigrant community. 24 Q. Having helped the immigrant community in the United 25 States, how does it make you feel that Alvaro Saravia has CHAVEZ - D 474 1 lived in the United States since 1986? 2 A. I get angry. And I think that it is a big injustice going 3 on, when those who are leaving the country, trying to provide 4 for their families, trying to help their families are -- and 5 continue to apply to the United States for legal status, and 6 someone who have committed or help commit a crime have a 7 protection, is living in this country, is really a big 8 injustice, I would say, and something that -- it is hard for 9 me to see families divided and trying to be together and this 10 immigration system doesn't give them the opportunity to be the 11 family together. And people who don't deserve have protection 12 and status. And it is hard. 13 MR. COHEN: Thank you, Ms. Chavez. I have no further 14 questions. 15 THE COURT: Thank you very much, Ms. Chavez. You may 16 step down. 17 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 18 THE COURT: You may call your next witness. 19 MR. COHEN: We would like to call Dr. Francisco 20 Acosta. 21 FRANCISCO ACOSTA, 22 called as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiff, having been 23 first duly sworn, testified as follows: 24 THE COURT: Please take the witness stand and state 25 your full name. ACOSTA - D 475 1 THE WITNESS: My name is Francisco Acosta Arevalo. 2 THE COURT: Can you spell your last name, please. 3 THE WITNESS: Acosta, A-C-O-S-T-A. 4 THE COURT: Thank you. You may proceed. 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. COHEN: 7 Q. Good morning, Dr. Acosta. 8 A. Good morning. 9 Q. Could you tell me where you live? 10 A. I live in Maryland, close to Washington D.C., and I have 11 been there for six years at this point. 12 Q. And where were you born? 13 A. I was born in the slope of a volcano called Guazapa 14 Volcano located in the northern part of El Salvador. 15 Q. Dr. Acosta, I would like to put a map of El Salvador on 16 the screen, if I may. 17 And your Honor, if I may approach the witness with a 18 pointer for the map? 19 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 20 MR. COHEN: Thank you. 21 THE WITNESS: Yes, I was born in the -- the slope of 22 a volcano located in this area around Suchitoto, Aguilares and 23 Quezaltepeque. Around that volcano are, I would say, six 24 municipalities, and we were living there, about 85,000 people 25 before the war. And I'm from a family of campesinos, farmers, ACOSTA - D 476 1 from a Catholic family. 2 We were 14 brothers and sisters. Again, a Catholic 3 family. And it is quite wonderful to be a big family in the 4 farm region because it's supposed to be -- a new baby is 5 supposed to be you have a godsend to support your family. 6 And so that's why we were a big family. I grew up 7 there, I was born there, and I live there to the point I have 8 to leave the region. 9 Q. Tell me about your education, Dr. Acosta. 10 A. Yes, I'm a sociologist. I was a graduate of sociology 11 from the Central American University run by the Jesuits. I 12 would say that, equivalent to the United States, would be like 13 a Master's Degree. Also I went to the National University and 14 studied psychology. Also I went to the seminary to study in 15 order to become a priest, Catholic priest, but I didn't 16 complete it. 17 Q. Can you tell me about your experience at the seminary when 18 you were growing up? 19 A. Yes. When I grew up, I had a strong feeling that I should 20 become a priest because I saw how welcome it was to be a 21 priest in the community. So I said I should be a priest, but 22 the fact is that one of my sisters is a Catholic nun and she 23 encouraged me to go to the seminary. 24 And for a long time, we were not able to afford even 25 to buy shoes. And so we have a small area, a farm, raising ACOSTA - D 477 1 corn, beans, coffee, but it was so small for a big family, 2 that sometime I recall that we didn't have enough food from 3 one harvest to the next harvest. 4 And it was really difficult for us, especially 5 because in the surrounding areas of my community, were about 6 28 haciendas, farms, big farms owned by a few families. And 7 the other side, we were on the slope of a volcano and it was 8 difficult to live with. 9 So it was in 1965 that I planted a good tomato 10 harvest, tomato plantation. It got a good harvest. And from 11 that harvest, I bought my own shoes. With those shoes, I 12 went -- I was able to go to the seminary. The seminary was 13 like a high school system. And I was so happy to have my 14 first time ever, and my brothers, to have for the first time 15 ever a pair of shoes. 16 And I went to the seminary to San Vicente, a little 17 far away from where I was living before. And it was extremely 18 moving. 19 I went to the seminary during high school in San 20 Vicente. And in fact, it was the first time I met Bishop 21 Romero. And one of my classmates were some seminarians that 22 did belong to Bishop Romero's Diocese. 23 And I recall that he came in the first time, I was 24 probably 18 years old, and it didn't ring a bell to me about 25 who was he. But judging by what my classmates said, he was a ACOSTA - D 478 1 humble person and an honorable person. And but it didn't 2 register more to me that I could be encountered with him for 3 the next 25 years. 4 Q. Can you tell me about your decision to leave the seminary? 5 A. Yes. Something that did bother me was that, among other 6 reasons, this is not the only reason, is that I saw 7 inconsistency between what my Bishop was saying and what he 8 was doing. 9 I will give a couple of cases, an idea. It was 1969, 10 that it was a big strike. The teachers put together a strike, 11 a national strike. 12 And the Bishop became -- start to speak against the 13 strike. And some of the teachers were my teachers, and so it 14 was quite clear that they were striking for a valid reason, 15 for the more -- during that strike, some of the teachers were 16 beaten by paramilitary forces, ORDEN. ORDEN was a 17 paramilitary force that started around 1969, I guess. And I 18 was really upset on that. 19 Because I did support the strike and I probably was 20 the only in the seminary who supported the strike. And I went 21 to rally in support of them, and that created some kind of 22 tension between me and the seminary authorities and the 23 Bishop. 24 Also, sometime during the vacation time, I stayed at 25 the house of the Bishop. And sometime I was present from the ACOSTA - D 479 1 president who was a Colonel. Fernandez Sanchez was a military 2 person. And he was present on behalf of -- on behalf of the 3 Bishop. I was in his presence while the president was -- his 4 forces were repressing the teachers. 5 And I think this is completely inconsistent, plus the 6 fact that about that time was a meeting in Medellin, Columbia, 7 where the bishops from all over the country got together and 8 start to talk about something called the "preferential for the 9 poor" -- "the preferential option for the poor." 10 And that really rang a bell to me. Imagine somebody, 11 a teenager, that had trouble to have enough food in my family, 12 and I start to hear something about Church in favor of 13 supporting more the poor people than the rich people. And 14 that was extremely attractive to me. 15 Plus the fact that I had a couple teachers in the 16 seminary who were priests who, one of them, he went to 17 Argentina, Chile, and came back and said, "Changes are taking 18 place in Argentina and Chile," and I -- he shared that with 19 me, and I was extremely moved, extremely happy, to know that 20 it was the kind of society different than the one that we were 21 living in. 22 One of the professors, Father Francisco Palacios. 23 Francisco Rafael Palacios somehow became my mentor. During 24 the breaks between classes, I shared time with him. I would 25 say, "Would you tell me more about this." It really, really ACOSTA - D 480 1 touched me. And so we went through favorite time and a lot of 2 time. Well, in that way, I said he was my mentor somehow. 3 So that kind of inconsistency, it did bother me. And 4 so I decided that I should not continue in this Diocese. And 5 I should go to another Diocese. And I went to the San 6 Salvador Diocese. 7 And I went and asked the director and vice director 8 of the seminary if I can join there. Plus the director was 9 Armando Lopez, Father Armando Lopez, a priest from Spain. And 10 I asked him, "Can I join here? Because I cannot live with 11 what I'm living with now." 12 And he said to me, "The Jesuits, we are in trouble 13 with the bishops, and we have it difficult now. If I say yes 14 to you now, I would be borrowing trouble. And let's do this. 15 Join -- go to -- join to register as a student at the Central 16 American University, and somehow we will resolve this matter." 17 And I said to him, "Okay. But I don't have a place 18 to stay." 19 And he said, "We will figure out how to do this." 20 And Father Rutilio Grande, who was a disciple in the 21 seminary said, "Look, don't make too much noise. Stay here 22 and we will provide you room and board." 23 And so I was in the seminary for sometime, and later 24 I joined through the Central American University and I got a 25 scholarship from Father Ignacio Martin Amaro (phonetic), who ACOSTA - D 481 1 was the director in that point of the school. And I went to 2 him and says -- I recall that I went to him and said, "Father, 3 thank you. Thank you so much for allowing me to have a 4 scholarship in this university." 5 And Father Martin Amaro told me, "Francisco" -- my 6 mother is an Indian, an Indian. And he told me, "Look, your 7 parents, your grandparents already pay for this." 8 And I said -- I'm amazed -- "Yes." And looking 9 through the history and the frame of the history that, "Yeah, 10 that's true." 11 And I was really pleased to have the chance, to have 12 the opportunity to go to Central American University. 13 Q. Now, after this time, can you tell us about your next 14 meeting with Monseñor Romero? 15 A. Yes, certainly. In the meantime, we put together -- it 16 was horrible, it was like a hurricane. And a lot of people 17 lost their houses because the river flood, the river that went 18 through the capital -- how you say, "flood"? 19 Q. Yes. 20 A. And many houses and shops that were around the river were 21 destroyed. So they came to us and said, "Can you guys put 22 together some help for us? And a group of people of us said, 23 "Yes, we can do that." 24 And we went with the city to donate a piece of land, 25 and we start to build houses together Saturday and Sundays. ACOSTA - D 482 1 We start to put together -- working together. So very soon, 2 we finish 62 houses. 3 So I said, "Hey, how can we build from this other 4 place?" Many other people. "Can you help us?" 5 "Yes, sure." 6 So we legalized the organization. We put the name of 7 Fundación Salvadoreña (Unintelligible), House and Foundation 8 For Low-Income Families. 9 So, well, we were working there, working there, and 10 suddenly we put together another area of 630 houses. And sure 11 enough, Bishop Romero showed up. We asked him to come to 12 the -- nowadays, it was 630 houses. 13 He came, he celebrated Mass. And after that, we have 14 lunch. That, for me, was really moving. Imagine that 15 somebody from the Guazapa Volcano, from the slope there, 16 having an Archbishop? That was really amazing to me. 17 And he struck me as a very humble person of a very -- 18 well, as a feeling that you have a Bishop, somebody with 19 authority, sharing food with you. That was really, really 20 somehow something life-changing there. 21 And it was a few weeks after, Rutilio Grande, Father 22 Rutilio Grande, the Jesuit, was killed in Aguilares. Because 23 I went to work with him in Aguilares, and one of my 24 assignments was to bring Communion to about 200 peasants in 25 his hometown, in Macinal (phonetic). So I did that several ACOSTA - D 483 1 times. And I had a wonderful relation with Father Rutilio 2 Grande, who was a close friend of Bishop Romero. 3 It looked like the killing of Rutilio Grande, who was 4 a man of faith, a man of integrity, started to change Bishop 5 Romero quickly. And in fact to get to know Bishop Rutilio 6 Grande after he was at the seminary and after, when he was 7 working at the Aguilares place, had a strong impact on me. 8 Q. Dr. Acosta, let me go back to the foundation for one 9 moment. How many houses did you ultimately build there? 10 A. I was working there for about 11 years. And I think that 11 we put together about 18,000 houses in 11 years. And I became 12 the associate promoter, organizing people, working together. 13 This is on Saturday and Sunday, we would work together to 14 build the houses. 15 As a matter of fact, let me take the opportunity to 16 tell how Bishop Romero changed quickly -- changing quickly. 17 It became for us a big hope, because during that time, 18 basically, the media was under strong control by the 19 government. We had no other services but the Catholic radio 20 station or the periodical, Orientacíon, the Catholic 21 newspaper, to know something was taking place, or to listen to 22 Bishop Romero homilies during the sermon time. 23 And so what we begin, we brought the radio 24 transmitters while we were working, we were listening while it 25 was happening. And I recall one day, especially one day, when ACOSTA - D 484 1 we were working. I was in charge at this time about 450 2 houses. And we put the radio transmitter all over the 3 property in order to listen to his homily. 4 And I recall that Bishop Romero said one day -- read 5 a letter to President Carter asking to stop sending weapons to 6 El Salvador, because it was that weapons were used to kill the 7 brothers and sisters of El Salvador. 8 And suddenly, suddenly, the whole 450, maybe more 9 families, stop and start to applaud what Bishop Romero said. 10 Oh, my goodness, I really remember that, how I had a feeling 11 that there are no other voice other than Bishop Romero here. 12 Q. Can you tell me, Dr. Acosta, was there ever a time that 13 you went to Monseñor Romero to seek personal assistance? 14 A. Yes, certainly. There was one specifically, but let me 15 tell you the framework in which this happened. 16 As I said, the media was under complete control of 17 the government. 18 So one day, one of my cousins had a -- she had a 19 store, a small store in her house. And she went to the 20 nearest city there to buy supplies for the store. 21 And on the way to back, she went to the Church and 22 she picked up some Orientacíon newspapers. On the way back to 23 her house, the police stopped her. And they -- she was 13 24 years old, by the way. And she had a canasta, her basket, she 25 brought some Orientacíon papers, newspapers. ACOSTA - D 485 1 Q. That's the church newspaper? 2 A. The church newspaper, yes. 3 So they detained her. They took her to the police 4 headquarters. My grandmother, Felicia Acosta (last name 5 phonetic), went to the police to see "What's going on with my 6 granddaughter?" She was also picked up and put in prison. 7 And we were really saying, "What's going on here." 8 Next day, they were released. My niece -- nephew -- 9 Q. Your niece? 10 A. My niece, yes, was released along with my grandmother. 11 And they said to my grandmother, "Go home because you have a 12 lot of work to do there." 13 Q. Who said that to your grandmother? 14 A. The police told her, "Go home, because you have a lot of 15 work to do there." 16 They went home. Sure enough, my two aunts, Teresa 17 and an Elena were killed in their house and which they were 18 chopped -- chopped (gesturing) in pieces right there. 19 And the connection was right there. They said, "You 20 have work to do there." 21 And I always want to take the opportunity to honor 22 them because they are the kind of people that never had the 23 chance to buy a pair of shoes for themselves. 24 Later, one of my primos, cousins, Elias Acosta 25 Rivera, who was a labor organizer in different haciendas, ACOSTA - D 486 1 farms around the region, was picked up by men in civilian 2 clothes in Aguilares. 3 Two days later, just -- let me go back to this. 4 Basically, most of the farm workers in the area were 5 earning about one dollar a day. A day. I will repeat that. 6 About one dollar a day, working in the sugar cane plantation, 7 cotton or picking coffee. For a family of six, one dollar a 8 day was nothing. 9 So my cousin was organizing people around there. So 10 he was kidnapped and, two days later, we found him. Some dogs 11 finding him in a place. 12 And we went to the Human Rights Commission run by 13 Marienella Garcia Villas, who was the President of the Human 14 Rights Commission, and said, "Help us to figure out what 15 happened here." He was taken out from the place that we found 16 it, and his tongue was cut. And it was really, really bad for 17 us. 18 Later, two of my cousins -- nephews, that's the 19 other, nephews nearby to my house were killed two doors away 20 from my house when a group of soldiers and men in civilian 21 clothes were going up to the hill, going out to the volcano 22 and they contact them and, without any interaction, they start 23 to shoot them right there. 24 So it was really, really difficult. And we, at this 25 point, we were not able to bring the bodies to bury them at ACOSTA - D 487 1 the cemetery because it was extremely dangerous to go to the 2 city. So we buried them in the chapel, in the local chapel, 3 and they are there. Like this, I can tell you more and more 4 stories. 5 But one day, I was at the -- in a training center, a 6 labor training center, and at noon, during the lunchtime, we 7 turn on the TV, and Roberto D'Aubuisson, Major Roberto 8 D'Aubuisson was speaking there. 9 Q. Let me stop you and ask you what year this was. Do you 10 recall? 11 A. Probably 19 -- February 1980. 12 Q. February 1980? 13 A. Yes. And Roberto D'Aubuisson was speaking there. Major 14 Roberto D'Aubuisson, who I -- I don't recall in what capacity 15 was he was saying that, but he said that my brother, Jorge 16 Alberto Acosta, the first one in the family, was the major -- 17 the biggest subversive of the Northern Region of El Salvador. 18 So -- 19 Q. How did you feel when you heard that? 20 A. Really bad, because we knew that once Roberto D'Aubuisson 21 say something, something would happen for sure. 22 So I was really uncomfortable. And I said what 23 should I do? We were living near the capital, and he was -- I 24 don't know where he was at that point. 25 But, sure enough, three days later, 4:00 o'clock in ACOSTA - D 488 1 the morning, about 28 soldiers and men in civilian clothes 2 came to his house in the slope of the volcano and surrounded 3 his house, and they started to shoot at him. He was sleeping 4 in the corridor of the house. And the other kids were 5 sleeping inside the house. 6 Well, none of the bullets went through him and not 7 through his baby either, the kid either. But we collected 8 seven caskets [sic] and 16 caskets [sic] right there. But 9 none of them were shot at him. I don't know exactly how to 10 say that at English. None went through him. 11 Q. He wasn't hit? 12 A. No, but he escaped through the hills, and like two miles 13 away, he fell down. And that was about 4:00 o'clock in the 14 morning. Around 5:00 in the morning, some workers on the way 15 to work found him there and went to my house to say what 16 happened with my brother. 17 So my mother went to see him and be with him for a 18 while. It was like he escaped without clothes. So my mother 19 brought him to my house -- to her house, because I was not 20 living with my father and mother's house any more. 21 And we found a mule and we took him from where he was 22 to a place where a car -- accessible to a car. 23 So from that point, he sent a message to me and said 24 if I can go to pick him up. That was really difficult, 25 because there were so many -- from that place to the capital ACOSTA - D 489 1 were so many police checkpoints that you have to go through 2 and something could happen on the way. 3 So I asked my sister, who is a Catholic nun, "Could 4 you come with me? I am really afraid to go to pick him up." 5 So I had a car, and I went to pick up my sister. Said, "Let's 6 go together. Let's go to pick him up." We went together. 7 Since my sister had a Catholic nun uniform, nothing 8 happened on the way. I brought him to my house in San 9 Salvador. It was really tough. Because in front, was living 10 somebody from the Army, and they are all the time checking who 11 was where and doing what. 12 And we said he can't be here because that would be a 13 real, real problem for us, for our safety. 14 So I went to the university, the Tri-American 15 University (phonetic) and said to my professors, "Can you help 16 me?" I went to different people, to many of my professors and 17 said, "Can you help me? What should I do?" I didn't know 18 what to do. 19 Basically, almost everybody told me, "Look, almost 20 everybody is in the same situation here. We can't help you." 21 And that was really a bad feeling for me. 22 And among other reasons, because that week, the 23 Attorney General, Mario Zamora Rivas, was killed. And they 24 said that "If that happened to him, that could happen to us 25 too, so, therefore, I can't help you." So one, another, ACOSTA - D 490 1 another, another professor were telling me the same story. 2 So my last attempt, I went to Bishop Romero's office 3 and I brought him there, and I said, Bishop -- "Monseñor 4 Romero, what should I do? I already -- all the possibilities 5 are closed. What should I do?" 6 And Monseñor Romero told me, "Look, I understand. 7 Leave him here at the seminary." His office was on the 8 seminary. And he said, "Leave him here. We will take care of 9 him. And I will assign your cousin," who was not a cathechist 10 who was a seminarian, and I brought him to the seminary, by 11 the way, "so I will assign him to take care of him." 12 He did that like three weeks. And three weeks after, 13 he finally found a way to go to the Mexican Embassy and he 14 requested political asylum there -- and my brother asked for 15 political asylum at the Mexican Embassy and was provided the 16 political asylum and he came to Mexico. 17 That's ironic to me. I spoke with my brother two 18 days ago and he is in El Salvador now also organizing people. 19 The ironic part of Bishop Romero is -- also my other cousin, 20 who was a seminarian, he was killed during the time that he 21 was about to celebrate his first Mass in his community. He 22 was doing the residence in the community to celebrate the 23 first Mass after his "ordination," it was called. 24 And the death squads came and shot them, 13 of them 25 were killed, including my cousin. And his name is Romero ACOSTA - D 491 1 Casares (phonetical spelling). And one school now in that 2 community, the school is in his name, honoring his name. And 3 I am really proud of that kind of thing happening. 4 So it's ironic, ironic to me that Bishop Romero was 5 killed at the church and my brother is right there still 6 organizing people. I really count my blessing when I see 7 that. 8 Q. Let me ask you about the steps you have taken to honor 9 Monseñor Romero. 10 A. Well, when Bishop Romero was killed -- I saw him three 11 days before driving a car at 10:00 o'clock at night driving by 12 himself. 13 I thought to myself, how this man, who has a death 14 threat, can be driving by himself 10:00 o'clock in the 15 evening? Sure enough, he was killed three days later. 16 I was at Tri-American University when that happened, 17 we were in class at the evening, around 6:00 o'clock. Teresa 18 Cuellar, one of my classmates, came to the classroom and said, 19 "Bishop Romero just have been killed." And everybody was in 20 shock. But Teresa was working with the Human Right Commission 21 and later she was killed herself too. 22 In a matter of 20 minutes, the whole university was 23 empty. Everybody left. And my feeling at this time is, oh, 24 my goodness, my goodness. If somebody like him can be killed, 25 the others, we are like a chicken. ACOSTA - D 492 1 At this point, I start to -- I receive a little note 2 from one of the neighbors who said to me, "Francisco, do not 3 sleep in your house. Do not sleep in your house because they 4 will come for you." 5 I received that little note. I received it from one 6 of my neighbors, and I started to sleep in different houses. 7 I later became aware that I was putting at risk other people 8 who I was sleeping in their house. 9 So I start to sleep in a coffee plantation. Around 10 6:00, 7:00, I got a plastic bag and went to sleep at the 11 coffee plantation to -- in order to protect myself with a 12 plastic bag, because there were a lot of mosquitoes there. So 13 I went to sleep in the coffee plantation and came back in the 14 morning. 15 And I was doing that. And suddenly, I realized that 16 why am I doing that? We start to get together, other people 17 were doing the same thing and worse. Because some of them 18 brought their dogs and the dogs were fighting together, so 19 they were fighting where we were sleeping. So no way, we 20 cannot do that. 21 So one day I came back to my house and my house were 22 broken in. They came for me. 23 Well, I said, "What should I do?" So some of the 24 Autodefensas Populares, popular self-defense, a group with 25 arms, came to me and said, "Join us." ACOSTA - D 493 1 I said, no. I had a strong -- I knew already about 2 the nonviolence approach, and I said, "No, that is impossible, 3 because two wrong things doesn't make one right. So I can't 4 kill anybody. I am coming from a Catholic family, and coming 5 from a strong, nonviolent family, and how can I join the Army, 6 the (In Spanish)." 7 And this person told me, "Look, don't worry. Once 8 you kill the first ones, the other is easy." That really 9 shocked me. 10 So at this point, I have three alternatives. One 11 alternative was continue doing what I was doing, organizing 12 people. 13 The other alternative is to accept the offer that 14 came to me, and the other alternative is to leave the country. 15 But I never was before out of the country before, so why 16 should I go? 17 At this point I had -- I brought most of my relatives 18 to refugees camps, especially a group of my mother and father 19 and my brothers and sisters. I arranged them to go to Costa 20 Rica. And they organized the first refugee camp in Costa Rica 21 there. 22 So I went to my work and I asked my boss, "Look, I 23 can't continue doing what I am doing. But I don't have money 24 either. What should I do?" 25 And he said, "Okay, I will fire you. And I will fire ACOSTA - D 494 1 you and I will give you some money." So I got some money with 2 that arrangement. 3 And -- but before this, I said, what should I do? I 4 mean I am studying at the Catholic University. So I took some 5 of my books, I wrapped them in plastic bags and make a hole in 6 my house, in the back of my house, and make a hole there and I 7 buried them there. 8 And other books I brought to the Catholic University 9 and I went to the Father Segundo Montes (phonetic), who was 10 the Dean of the Economic Science Department, and I said, 11 "Father, could you please take care of my books? I will come 12 to pick them up after this mess is finished." 13 And he said, "Yes. Leave the books in my office and 14 later on, you will take care of them." 15 I said, "Sure enough." 16 I returned ten years later. I didn't find Father 17 Segundo Montes. I didn't find my books either. Six of my 18 former professors -- I think five of my former professors were 19 killed, the Jesuits. That was a shocking period for me. 20 So in the next time, a year ago, I left Mexico, and 21 during sometime I did education work in Mexico. I explained 22 people there what happened. 23 Especially, the shock of being in the Bishop Romero 24 funeral. I was there. And though we were scared to go to the 25 funeral, we -- we hear through the radio Catholic, YSAX, the ACOSTA - D 495 1 radio station, they said: Don't worry. Many personalities, 2 many dignitaries are coming from other countries. It's safe 3 to come here. So including Cardinal Almada from Mexico 4 representing the Pope. 5 And you are, in your mind, says, if somebody 6 representing the Pope is going to be here, it is safe to go. 7 So neighbors and one of my niece says, "Let's go together" -- 8 Q. Dr. Acosta, let me put up a picture and maybe you can 9 identify it for us. 10 A. Yes, that's a vivid -- and let me tell you something. 11 People in civilian clothes, but on the roof of different 12 buildings, that's the National Palace building. 13 Q. You are pointing to the building in the back on the top 14 right? 15 A. Yes, but also in back, just in front of the cathedral, it 16 was back there. On the roof of the buildings were people in 17 civilian clothes with weapons too. So -- 18 Q. Can you point to that? 19 A. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So this is the National Palace 20 building. I remember the Banco Hipotecario here in this part 21 and there were other banks on this side too. 22 So we arrived there, but full of people. It was so 23 wonderful that so many people could be here. 24 And so when about -- the Mass was about to start 25 there, a bomb came out right in the corner there. Somebody ACOSTA - D 496 1 throw a bomb. So everybody start to move in this direction, 2 running in this direction. 3 Q. Running away from the bomb? 4 A. Running away from the bomb. And suddenly, another bomb 5 was in the other corner and people start to move in the other 6 direction too. In this back and forth, some people fell down. 7 Especially seniors. 8 And at some point, I was -- really, picture it. 9 Really dramatic. I was above three seniors, different 10 seniors, and were under my knees, underneath, asking me, "Help 11 me, help me, help me." 12 And I had probably not in my life another frustrating 13 feeling, that you cannot do anything for others and you cannot 14 do for you anything either. That's -- that's frustration. It 15 is really hard, it was really frustrating not to be able to do 16 anything. 17 Suddenly, the shooting started. The ones who were at 18 the National Palace, they start to shoot. Others from the 19 banks. So shooting was crossing in this crowd. 20 So my niece and I, we were able to leave the region 21 through the Red Cross. The Red Cross helped us to get out of 22 there. 23 And my brother, Amadeo, who went with the 24 13-years-old daughter, he lost the daughter. He find her like 25 two days later. And that what really hard. ACOSTA - D 497 1 So I would say that this was -- if I could say the 2 civil war started at some point, this was the day in which 3 people had a feeling that, everybody, this is a landmark here. 4 Something completely different would happen here. In fact, 5 did happen for the next 12 years. 6 So I left the country, and I explained to many people 7 what happened there, here in Mexico, while I was in Mexico for 8 two years. And later in Canada. I later came to the United 9 States. And it was probably about 20 states speaking at 10 universities, speaking in churches, speaking with people, 11 speaking with unions, trying to explain what's going on there 12 and the roots of the problem. 13 So about 19 -- after the Jesuits were killed, I was 14 asked by Congress people and the State Department, the State 15 Department, Congress people, the Salvadoran Embassy in 16 Washington and the military attache, the Salvadoran military 17 attache, to be the channel to convince the other side of the 18 people. 19 Q. The other side? 20 A. Was the FMLN. So I was trying to bring the forces 21 together. And once they were together, I said, "Okay, that's 22 enough for me. So the negotiations -- I had no more role to 23 play in this. I just helped to put together the forces at the 24 table and after that, the United Nations came in the process. 25 But, in reality, it took two years later to finish this ACOSTA - D 498 1 process. 2 And but since it was quite clear to me that the war 3 was about to finish, because partially because the killing of 4 the Jesuits. 5 Q. And what year was the killing of the Jesuits? 6 A. 1990 -- '90 -- '89, I guess. '89. 7 So it was quite clear that the war was about to 8 finish. I said to my wife, "Okay. What should we do now?" 9 And I said to my wife, "Do you know what we are going to do? 10 Let's go back to El Salvador." At this point I was married. 11 My wife, her name is Barbara Toll (phonetic) from Hawaii. And 12 I said to her, "Let's go to El Salvador and let's put together 13 a new university on behalf of Bishop Romero." 14 She said to me, "Are you crazy? Universities are put 15 together by Jesuits or prominent people." 16 And I said, "Yes, but somebody has to do something 17 honoring Bishop Romero." 18 Sure enough, two months later, we were on the way to 19 El Salvador, but we didn't realize it was two years before the 20 peace agreement was signed. 21 But we took advantage of the peace agreement, and we 22 brought the by-laws to the government, and we said, "We want 23 to create a new university on behalf of Bishop Romero in the 24 place that I was born." 25 So the peace agreement was -- provided a good mood at ACOSTA - D 499 1 this point in the country. They didn't say no. So they 2 approved the Bishop Romero University as a legal entity. 3 In 1994, we started classes in Chalatenango. And at 4 this point, we have there the Oscar Romero University. Where 5 nothing was before, now is a university of about 800 students, 6 52 professors. In the center of the campus, who is there? 7 Bishop Romero. 8 Because really, really, this is the legacy. When 9 Bishop Romero said, "If something happen to me, I will rise 10 among the Salvadoran people," this is it. This is the 11 university. Honoring somebody that for me, means somebody 12 like Martin Luther King in the United States, Martin Luther 13 King in the United States, or Ghandi for India or that level. 14 In Latin America, we say that it's a process of 15 canonization of Bishop Romero, probably he will or probably he 16 won't, but for us, for the Salvadoran people, or for Latin 17 American people, he is our saint already. 18 Q. Dr. Acosta, is it a religious institution, the Romero 19 University? 20 A. Well, I did it together with the local Diocese in 21 Chalatenango, so they are part of the work, too, yeah. 22 But my approach to this is an ecumenical approach, 23 because "university" come from "universal," and university 24 should be universal thinking. 25 So basically, it's like we want you to portray this ACOSTA - D 500 1 as a ecumenical effort due to the fact that many churches, 2 including the Episcopal Church in England, London, in the 3 cathedral in London, or in the National Cathedral in 4 Washington, is a Bishop Romero bust. 5 Among many Protestant churches, all know Bishop 6 Romero. Therefore, Bishop Romero doesn't belong only to the 7 Catholic Church, he belonged to a bigger frame. He belongs 8 to -- I would say, to the nonviolence thinking in the world. 9 That really, it is more than we believe, I think. As 10 we are here, soon it is going to be one park in Washington 11 D.C., is going to be nominated Bishop Romero Park. (In 12 Spanish). But the whole process is on the way that that park 13 is going to be nominated in his name. 14 And since I travel across the country, and different 15 countries, I see different Casa Romero, Casa Monseñor Romero, 16 Clínica Monseñor Romero. Many, many efforts, and I will say 17 not just in the United States or in Latin America, I would say 18 probably in the world. So this is a strong legacy. 19 I certainly don't know what the other witnesses said 20 here in this chair, but I can tell you what that means for me 21 and for my family and for my father, who died already. It has 22 a strong meaning. 23 Q. Let me just ask you, in closing, what you feel about being 24 involved in this case? 25 A. I really am pleased with being able to be in this chair in ACOSTA - D 501 1 front of the judge, in front of a judge. Because this is a 2 strong effort against impunity. Those who do something at 3 least should recognize that they did something wrong. 4 To me, after 72 relatives were killed during 12 years 5 in a place in which everybody knew each other, in a place 6 where my father and my mother taught me that everybody, all 7 the time, 30 years, like my aunt and my uncle were strong 8 anthropological links, suddenly, we are in my immediate 9 family, we are now in six different countries. In my extended 10 family, we are in 14 different countries. Now, we speak nine 11 different languages as a consequence of this. 12 So in the last 25 years, I will say this, because 13 next year it is going to be the 25th anniversary of Bishop 14 Romero's assassination, I have been extremely -- we have been 15 dealing with this issue. 16 To me, personally, and I am for sure for the members 17 of my family, the point is: Should we forget? Should we 18 forgive? How can we move on? 19 Because this is heavy in misery for us. Extremely 20 heavy. The fact I was invited to be a witness in this time, 21 in this place, is a way to get a closure, saying, justice is 22 done. I can move on in my life. 23 And for the first time, I can say that different 24 names of people have nominated here that will make history for 25 me, because those names never came out during the Truth ACOSTA - D 502 1 Commission. The Truth Commission under the United Nations 2 auspices came out prominent people. 3 The question is: Are my relatives prominent? This 4 is a way that I feel that bringing in front of the judge in a 5 federal court is a way to make them prominent from the bottom 6 up. 7 I think that it's time to move on. I think that 8 giving this testimony before a judge and before all of you is 9 a closure to me and my family. 10 MR. COHEN: Thank you very much. 11 THE COURT: Thank you, Dr. Acosta. You may step 12 down. 13 THE WITNESS: Thank you. 14 THE COURT: Let's take the morning recess. We will 15 stand in recess until ten minutes before 11:00. 16 (Recess) 17 MR. EISENBRANDT: May I take a moment to consult? 18 THE COURT: Yes, you may. 19 Back on the record in Doe versus Saravia. 20 Mr. Eisenbrandt. 21 MR. EISENBRANDT: Thank you, your Honor. The 22 plaintiff calls Walter Guerra. 23 WALTER GUERRA, 24 called as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiff, having been 25 first duly sworn, testified through the Certified Court GUERRA - D 503 1 Interpreter as follows: 2 THE CLERK: Please state your name for the record. 3 THE WITNESS: My name is Walter Romero Guerra. 4 THE CLERK: Thank you. 5 DIRECT EXAMINATION 6 BY MR. EISENBRANDT: 7 Q. Sir, what is your occupation? 8 A. I am a Catholic priest in the -- a parochial priest in San 9 Jose La Majado Sonsonate. 10 MR. EISENBRANDT: Your Honor, may I approach the 11 witness with a pointer? 12 THE COURT: You may. 13 BY MR. EISENBRANDT: 14 Q. Father, can you please show us on the map where that's 15 located? 16 A. How do you turn this on? 17 Q. Push down. 18 A. Now where is that thing? 19 Q. That's okay. Don't worry. From San Salvador, what 20 direction is your parish? 21 A. In the western part of the nation, Santa Ana, and it's a 22 little bit below Santa Ana, south of that. 23 Q. Okay. Thank you. 24 A. Sonsonate. 25 Q. Thank you. When did you become a priest? GUERRA - D 504 1 A. 35 years ago, 1969. 2 Q. What other parishes have you served in? 3 A. I was in Armenia, Sonsonate for three and a half years, 4 in -- 5 THE REPORTER: I apologize, Mr. Garcia, that was a 6 little fast. 7 THE INTERPRETER: Yes, and I apologize. The 8 interpreter didn't want to forget. 9 THE WITNESS: San Antonio de Sonsonate for 20 years. 10 And the first years of my priestly life were in Santa Ana, 11 four years. 12 BY MR. EISENBRANDT: 13 Q. Are there any particular projects you are devoted to now? 14 A. Well, first of all, the work of a parish, which is 15 very -- which is great. 16 Second of all, I have a nonprofit organization, which 17 it's nonprofit, which is dedicated to fight malnutrition in 18 El Salvador. The program is called "Programa de Nutrición y 19 Soja," which is soybeans, the "Nutrition and Soybean Program." 20 This program has been in existence for 20 years. We have 21 given nutritional education to half a million El Salvadorans. 22 And we have been able to better the nutritional state of 23 10,000 malnourished children. 24 Another organization which I created eight years ago 25 was an organization for scholarships. We started eight years GUERRA - D 505 1 ago giving scholarships to 125 children. At this time, we are 2 giving scholarships to a thousand children. I have been 3 working for the last 16 years in Caritas, Caritas of 4 El Salvador organization, an international organization. 5 These are the most important of my activities. 6 Q. Did you know Oscar Romero? 7 A. I met him when I was at seminary. I met him approximately 8 in 1962. 9 Q. When Oscar Romero became Archbishop, where was your parish 10 at that time? 11 A. At the same time that I became the parish priest in 12 Armenia, that's when I became the Archbishop, February of '77 13 until June of 1980. So while he was the Archbishop, I was a 14 parish priest in Armenia at the same time. 15 Q. What was life like in Armenia at that time? 16 A. The repression throughout the whole Department of 17 Sonsonate was horrible and Armenia was one of the towns that 18 was most beaten by the repression. 19 At the same time, the goals of the -- of the 20 repression was to eliminate all opposition within the country. 21 It was not possible to have any -- in existence any group that 22 was Apostolic or cultural. Only the Eucharistic celebrations, 23 or that is, the Holy Mass. Any other type of activity was 24 suspicious and dangerous according to the Army. 25 And as such, all the youths, the teachers, the -- GUERRA - D 506 1 those that were working the land at that time, during that 2 three-year period, they are over -- they were over 500 people 3 that were killed. 4 Q. So were any of your parishioners killed? 5 A. I saw that many of them were killed brutally. 6 In front of my own house, the parish house, my best 7 friend was killed there. At 2:00 o'clock in the morning, the 8 death squad, they came, and they fired on my friend. Jorge, 9 that was his name. And they just blew his head apart, and 10 they left his mother dying there with him because she had 11 chosen to defend him. There was nothing we could do. All of 12 us were afraid. 13 And nevertheless, I got up at 4:00 o'clock that 14 morning, and what I did is I went out and I took Jorge's body, 15 and I brought it into the house, and I cleaned it off -- 16 cleaned off all the blood. And then I was able to take his 17 mother to the hospital. 18 Many others that were members of the parish also 19 died, and I had the opportunity to celebrate the -- their 20 funerals. Life in the town at that time went up to 6:00 p.m. 21 After 6:00 o'clock in the afternoon, there was nobody on the 22 streets. It was like a cemetery. 23 During the last few months of life of Monseñor 24 Romero, none of us took our clothing off when we went to bed. 25 We would sleep with pants and a shirt on so that we would be GUERRA - D 507 1 able to flee at any moment that it was necessary. 2 Q. Was it common to see bodies in the streets? 3 A. Yes. It was quite frequent. Yes. I myself had to pick 4 up six young men that had been killed. The National Guard, 5 the death squads, what they had done, is they had killed these 6 and they had left them on the main highway going to San 7 Salvador. And what they had done is they had placed them 8 there in -- by order of their height and in nothing but their 9 underwear. 10 Q. Were you personally targeted? 11 A. Yes. Yes, I was captured, and I was in jail for 24 hours. 12 The mayor of Armenia, he was killed when I was accompanying 13 him. He was supposed to sign a document which was authorizing 14 a parish celebration. And as we were right in front of the 15 mayor's office, the guerillas, and there was a female 16 guerilla, she fired into him, into his back, right next to me. 17 I picked him up, I put him in my pickup and I took 18 him to the hospital. The mayor died on the way. And when I 19 came back to the mayor's office in front of the mayor's 20 office, the National Guard, they picked me up, because they 21 had said that I had turned the mayor over to the guerillas. 22 At that time, the townspeople, they surrounded the 23 mayor's office so that I would not be taken from the town. If 24 they had taken me from the mayor's office, they would have 25 killed me. GUERRA - D 508 1 They weren't able to take me out, so then they put me 2 into jail. They tied my fingers during 12 hours with plastic. 3 And my fingers got so swollen, they got so fattened, that I 4 wasn't even able to undo my belt. 5 I was in jail. There were eight prisoners and I was 6 the ninth. And then the prisoners, they said, "Father, don't 7 worry, we will defend you." 8 And one of them told me, "Father, this is my bed," 9 and he turned over a cardboard to me so that I was able to 10 sleep on the ground. 11 "If you hear any sounds at night, don't move. We 12 will see what's going on." A great solidarity. 13 The townspeople, they started sending cookies and 14 refreshments by different means. When we had gathered some 15 food, by 6:00 p.m., I invited all of the other prisoners to 16 eat. "Now we are going to have dinner," and we ate and we 17 also prayed "In Our Father." 18 Q. How were you released from jail? 19 A. The judge, the judge in the lower court of Armenia 20 received my written statement. Some attorneys, some attorneys 21 had been sent by Archbishop Romero's office, and also my 22 family had hired two attorneys. The attorneys pressured the 23 judge or they explained to the judge that there was no reason 24 for my being held. The judge decreed that I should be freed. 25 I still keep that release order. GUERRA - D 509 1 Q. So two of the lawyers were sent by Monseñor Romero? 2 A. At that time, Archbishop Romero was in Rome, but 3 telephonically, what he did is he informed them at the place 4 of legal custody, and also for Judicial Aid, which is part of 5 the Archbishop's office, he indicated that they should send 6 legal help for me. 7 Q. Do you remember the names of the two lawyers? 8 A. One was Roberto Cuellar. I do not remember the other one. 9 Q. Prior to Monseñor Romero's years as Archbishop, how well 10 did you know him before he became Archbishop? 11 A. Okay. Well, when he was an aide in San Salvador, it was 12 more the year, like 1970, '71, '72, around that time. I had 13 the opportunity to have many dealings with him. 14 Q. And then once he became Archbishop, was your parish in 15 Armenia part of the Archdiocese? 16 A. No, I was part of another Diocese, the Santa Ana Diocese. 17 Q. So you were not one of Monseñor Romero's priests? 18 A. I was not a priest in his Diocese, but he really took well 19 to me. He really trusted me because I was a teacher in the 20 seminary and also I was a teacher at the UCA, which is the 21 Central American University. 22 Q. What types of meetings would you go to with Monseñor 23 Romero? 24 A. We would have meetings of all the priests in the different 25 Dioceses so that we would be able to consider the situation, GUERRA - D 510 1 the totality of the situation in the country, which was very 2 difficult, and so that all of us together would be able to 3 come up with ways to be able to help the situation. 4 Q. And Monseñor Romero was at these meetings? 5 A. Monseñor Romero would attend these meetings regularly and 6 he would actively participate with all these priests. 7 Q. And how frequently were these meetings? 8 A. Normally, it was one time per month. 9 Q. What other types of activities did you engage in with 10 Monseñor Romero? 11 A. Well, at times, he invited me to go to preach at spiritual 12 retreats for priests from his Diocese. Well, I also 13 accompanied, when there were some negotiations having to do 14 with strikes, there were the strikes that were going on and we 15 were participating in the negotiations, and Monseñor Romero 16 invited me to go along with him, having to do -- to resolve 17 those strikes during the negotiations. 18 Q. Can you give us a few examples about these labor 19 negotiations? 20 A. Okay. In approximately -- it was in 1968, in June, that 21 there were the negotiations with the La Constancia, which is a 22 beer brewing company. 23 And the Mesa family, which are the owners of the 24 company, they agreed that Monseñor Romero would be the 25 mediator during the negotiations. GUERRA - D 511 1 The techniques that Monseñor Romero used were, first, 2 he would sit down and speak with the workers, and then he 3 would speak with the company administration, and then all 4 would sit together and come to negotiate. 5 He was very creative in having proposals that were, 6 let's say, doable. Also, he was very, very friendly in such a 7 way, oh, towards the administration of these companies, to the 8 executives, so that they would be able to see and to feel the 9 situation that the workers were going through, so that he was 10 able to get some concessions from them that were very 11 favorable to the workers. And because he knew quite well that 12 the administrators of these businesses were Catholic, and he 13 carried moral weight with them. Well, that was one strike. 14 Another strike having to do with the buses, it's the 15 buses used for transportation having to do with the owners of 16 the buses and also the workers related to that. 17 At that time, it was not an easy situation, because 18 the bus owners, they were other people. And also, well, the 19 bus owners, they were having difficulties with their units 20 because the buses were so old and they were having problems 21 with these, and it was very difficult for them to be able to 22 give more to their workers. 23 And one occasion, it was a Solomonic answer. He 24 said, "Okay, all of us, we -- you go together." And he told 25 both of them, that we all go together, both the bus owners and GUERRA - D 512 1 the workers, we all go to the national bank and what we do is 2 we get loans so that they could get better buses, better 3 units, and then they would be able to pay better wages. 4 Okay, on another occasion where I was able to work 5 along with Monseñor Romero, was in the writing of one of his 6 pastoral letters. Okay. I do remember my part in writing up 7 this letter. It was Faith and Politics, the Role of 8 Christians in Politics. It was very interesting. I think 9 it's one of the most meaningful letters of Monseñor Romero, 10 because the subject at that time, it was decisive for the life 11 of the Christians living at that time. Christians can 12 organize themselves politically. They can involve themselves 13 in the political structure of the nation. 14 And then Monseñor Romero, he answers with Church 15 doctrine, saying the people do have the right to become 16 involved in the politics of the nation. They do have the 17 right to organize themselves politically. 18 All of this reasoning, of course, with a lot of 19 Biblical reasoning. 20 Q. Did you also work with him on homilies? 21 A. Yes, during the last part of his life, yes, during the 22 last year of his life, after I had been captured and 23 imprisoned, that was in May of '79 until March of '80, I 24 attended the weekly meetings to prepare the homilies along 25 with Mr. Romero. GUERRA - D 513 1 We would meet in San Salvador in the morning. We 2 would meet, and then to prepare the homilies, and we would 3 have breakfast together and we would work on the homilies. We 4 would work from 7:30 until 11:00 in the morning. 5 Q. How did Monseñor Romero decide on the themes for his 6 homilies? 7 A. He would listen to the reports of the different -- of us 8 consultants who were there. He would listen to the different 9 reports that were presented to him, different reports that 10 were political, that were financial, that were social, 11 sociological, that were pastoral. 12 And he would take notes, and then he would ask us 13 questions, and then he would prepare the homilies, him, by 14 himself, on his own. 15 Q. So did you write homilies for him or did he write them 16 himself? 17 A. He would write them for himself because he typed quite 18 well. 19 Q. Did he talk about human rights in his homilies? 20 A. His homilies were actually a lighted torch for all the 21 peoples. 22 Because, first of all, he would biblically analyze 23 the homilies, biblically. 24 And then he would apply the biblical message to life. 25 And then, thirdly, a realistic look of what was GUERRA - D 514 1 taking place during the week. 2 Finally, the conclusions. And actually, he would 3 denounce all violations of human rights. He would give names, 4 he would give last names. He would give the names of the 5 places of all that had happened as far as the violation of the 6 rights of all humans. 7 He was the only person in all of El Salvador that was 8 able to say those things. At that time, to denounce all of 9 the abuses was to -- was equal to receiving a death sentence. 10 And at that time, we were saying he was "the voice of those 11 that had no voice." 12 Sometimes during our Saturday morning meetings, he 13 would say to us, "Today, I have received three, four, death 14 warnings." But he would always tell us, "I am not afraid of 15 death. Death be welcome. Because I will be resurrected. The 16 day that I am killed, I will be resurrected among the 17 Salvadoran people." 18 The last homily, March 22nd -- I'm sorry, it was 19 Sunday, March 23rd, we told him that Saturday morning, 20 "Monseñor, it is not worth it for you to invite these soldiers 21 to disobedience." It was going to give the military the 22 opportunity for them to kill him. He wanted to denounce the 23 massacres of the army and that could just not continue. 24 He listened to our advice, but he kept silent. He 25 himself took that decision by himself, and Sunday, March 23rd, GUERRA - D 515 1 he invited all the soldiers not to obey the orders of death. 2 And you know how it concluded. One day later, he was 3 assassinated. 4 Q. How did you find out about the assassination? 5 A. I was in Santa Ana, the place of my birth. I was there 6 with my family. It's towards the west of the country. I 7 heard it on the local radio. 8 Q. What did you do at that time? How did it affect you? 9 A. Well, very sad and also full of anger. I felt like a 10 light had gone out. 11 Q. Did you attend his funeral? 12 A. The following day, Tuesday, I went to San Salvador and 13 then during the rest of the week, every day, I was visiting 14 the body of Monseñor Romero celebrating Masses and also with 15 prayer. 16 His body was in the church, the Basilica of the 17 Sacred Heart, about eight blocks north of the cathedral, 18 because the cathedral was under construction. 19 Q. Can I direct you to Exhibit 64, which is on the screen, 20 and it's in your small binder there. 21 A. Yes, this picture shows the burial of the body of Monseñor 22 Romero. He was present there in body. 23 What's the number? 24 Q. 64. 25 A. Oh, here it is, yes. GUERRA - D 516 1 Q. And you were there? 2 A. Yes. I was over here, on this side over here. Well, 3 because this picture was taken from the door of the cathedral. 4 Yes, because right there in front of the cathedral door, all 5 of us priests were right there, right there during the 6 celebration of the Mass and also the body of Monseñor Romero 7 was there. 8 Yes, I was one of those, along with six other 9 priests, that got to carry the body, the body of Monseñor 10 Romero from the alter over there to the main door, the door 11 that is in front of the main plaza. 12 At that time, there were 300 of us priests that were 13 from El Salvador, from Central America, South America, North 14 America. There were priests from all of the Americas and 15 there were some from Europe also. 16 Cardinal Corripio from Mexico is the one who 17 celebrated the Mass. When he preached, the first bomb was 18 heard towards the end, towards the end where the National 19 Palace is. 20 And at that time, I saw them, that there were some 21 demonstrators, like there were people that were coming, 22 although there was a throng all around them, but yet there was 23 a stream of people coming this way, this way, like towards the 24 Monseñor. 25 The first demonstrators had already gotten here to GUERRA - D 517 1 the front. They could not get in because there were gates, 2 steel gates. They turned a bouquet of flowers over to us. 3 At that time, the bombs started going off and then 4 there was a rush of people going everywhere. And it was just 5 totally crazy. Everybody was running in great fear. Many 6 people, they were on the ground, and they were trampled by the 7 great multitudes. 8 And the -- we took -- all of us priests, we took 9 Monseñor Romero's body, and we put it back into the cathedral. 10 And the people, they knocked down these steel gates. They 11 knocked them down, and then they went into the cathedral. 12 There were at least 5,000 of us that were in the cathedral. 13 And those of us, the priests that carried his body, 14 we took him inside and then we immediately put it in the 15 burial vault, the one that had been prepared, because of the 16 danger that they would want to take Monseñor Romero's body. 17 And so then we put the body of Monseñor Romero into the burial 18 vault, and then we started to encourage people to sing. 19 This was approximately at 10:00 in the morning. At 20 12:00 noon, when the situation little by little had calmed 21 down, and us young priests that were there, we went out into 22 the square, into the main plaza, and we recovered 17 bodies. 23 Q. Can you look at Exhibit 65, please. 24 A. Yes, you can see that. You can see there, right there, 25 there is a priest, there is a cardinal, and what he is doing GUERRA - D 518 1 is giving the final blessing to some of the bodies that we 2 recovered that day. 3 And there is another, 66. (Referring to photo.) 4 We see there that was approximately at 4:00 in the 5 afternoon. All of the priests and the nuns, we were taken in 6 ambulances from the Red Cross and, obviously, with hands up. 7 The Army was quite scared because there were guerillas that 8 had taken the cathedral and they had placed armed people on 9 the four corners of the cathedral. 10 And thanks to these guerillas, the Army did not go 11 into the cathedral. And then the Church and civil 12 authorities, what they did, is they negotiated, and then they 13 talked with President Duarte so that they would not go into 14 the cathedral and they could leave from that area. 15 And then the Army was taken from there and then us, 16 those religious people, we managed to leave the cathedral by 17 4:30 in the afternoon. 18 Q. Can you look at Exhibit 63, please. 19 A. This, 63? 20 Q. Yes. 21 A. Oh. 22 Q. Do you recognize what that is? 23 A. These are the people -- I'm supposing, because I'm not 24 familiar with the faces of these people, but they were there 25 for the burial of the Monseñor. GUERRA - D 519 1 Q. Was the picture that's Exhibit 63, is that representative 2 of what you saw on that day? 3 A. I believe so, because you can see on their countenance, 4 you can see on their countenance, the sadness for the death of 5 Monseñor Romero. 6 MR. EISENBRANDT: Your Honor, I would move to admit 7 to evidence Exhibits 64 through 66 as they have been 8 identified by the witness and Exhibit 63 as demonstrative of 9 the people at the funeral that day. 10 THE COURT: All right. Let me ask one question of 11 Father Guerra. 12 THE WITNESS: Yes. 13 THE COURT: Were you able to observe the faces of 14 people at that kind of range during the funeral proceedings 15 throughout the day that we have just seen depicted in Exhibit 16 63? 17 THE WITNESS: Of course, because I was approximately 18 25 meters from the multitude. 19 THE COURT: And would the faces depicted in this 20 photograph be representative of what you observed the people's 21 countenances to be at that time? 22 THE WITNESS: I believe so. 23 THE COURT: All right. Exhibits 63 through 66 are 24 received in evidence. 25 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 63 through 66 were received.) GUERRA - D 520 1 BY MR. EISENBRANDT: 2 Q. Father, after the assassination, were there memorials, 3 marches for Monseñor Romero? 4 A. 24 years have passed by, and every year, as the years go 5 by, the activities are multiplying in relation to the death of 6 Monseñor Romero. 7 I believe he is the priest, the Archbishop in the 8 world -- well, in the Catholic world, he is the priest and the 9 Archbishop who is the most spoken about in the world. 10 And, as a matter of fact, the Anglicans, the Anglican 11 church, the Anglicans, they have placed a statue of Monseñor 12 Romero in Westminister Cathedral. 13 He is a martyr for the Anglican Church and, of 14 course, for us. The Pope himself, when he arrived in 15 El Salvador in 1983, he said, "Happy is the -- are the 16 Salvadoran people that had a shepherd, a Bishop and a martyr 17 as their guide." 18 Q. I'm going to show you a few photos and just ask you if you 19 can tell me if these are representative of the types of 20 memorials that you have seen. Can you please look at Exhibit 21 78. 22 A. 78? 23 Q. Yes. Is that representative of the type of memorial you 24 may see to Monseñor Romero? 25 A. Yes, it's quite frequent, the celebrations, where people GUERRA - D 521 1 come from different places, and they bring billboards. This 2 year I was in the east of El Salvador in the Morazan province. 3 There were approximately 25 of us parishes that held a 4 celebration in honor of the Monseñor. And there were around 5 500 of us in the hall. And everybody was very happy with the 6 photographs of the Monseñor Romero in their hand. 7 Q. Can you look at Exhibit 79 and tell me if that also is 8 representative of the type of memorials? 9 A. Well, exactly. That's what I saw this year. 10 Q. And Exhibit 80, is that a typical scene of a type of 11 memorial? 12 A. Yes. I believe there is something important. That's the 13 tomb, isn't it, of -- Monseñor Romero's tomb? And you can 14 see, there are some small pictures on top of the tomb. And 15 those pictures are gratuities. What they are is they are 16 thankful -- notes of thanks from people for whom Monseñor 17 Romero has done miracles. Always on top of that tomb, there 18 are flowers, there are candles and people there who come to 19 pray there. 20 John Paul II himself, they changed the route, changed 21 the route. He arrived at the cathedral unexpectedly, and he 22 himself knelt to pray there. 23 Q. Can you also look at Exhibits 81 and 82 and tell me if 24 those are representative of the types of memorials you see? 25 A. Yes. I think those are just common, what you see, as far GUERRA - D 522 1 as the devotion to him, and throughout all El Salvador for 2 Monseñor Romero. And not just El Salvador, I have also seen 3 it in Mexico. 4 MR. EISENBRANDT: Your Honor, I would move to admit 5 into evidence Exhibits 78 through 82 as demonstrative of 6 memorials to Monseñor Romero. 7 THE COURT: Exhibits 78 through 82 are received in 8 evidence. 9 (Plaintiff's Exhibits 78 through 82 were received.) 10 BY MR. EISENBRANDT: 11 Q. Father, after the assassination of Archbishop Romero, did 12 you suffer any further persecution? 13 A. I went to Mexico in June or July, July of 1980. The 14 faithful people in Armenia would say to me, "Father, leave. 15 The people, they might kill you." 16 So I was in Mexico for two years. I returned in 17 August of 1982. And I went through the war, all the war in 18 El Salvador. 19 And during that time, I was personally threatened by 20 military personnel. The military head in Sonsonate, we were 21 in an administrative celebration, all of us together. And the 22 Colonel told me, "You are a guerilla. Leave the country. 23 Because -- or I will kill you or you will kill me." That was 24 when I had just barely been back in Salvador for six months. 25 But I had already made my decision that I was never going to GUERRA - D 523 1 leave El Salvador and I never wanted to leave. 2 I took some precautions, because I do believe that 3 the people need me to be alive. And the priests and the 4 churches, we have been, thanks be to God, a hope for the 5 people during all of the war. The churches are the ones that 6 have given protection and humanitarian aid. As such, it was 7 important to be in El Salvador. And now we just give thanks 8 to God that we are alive. 9 MR. EISENBRANDT: Your Honor, I have just a couple of 10 questions for the witness, and I wonder if we might be able to 11 do those in camera for reasons of security. 12 THE COURT: Yes. If you represent to the Court that 13 there are security concerns that would involve safety of the 14 witness, I will let you state those concerns, if they are of 15 such a sensitive nature that they can't be stated publicly, 16 upon your representation in good faith, that there is such a 17 danger, I will take the statements of justification in camera. 18 MR. EISENBRANDT: I will represent that to your 19 Honor, that, yes, there are legitimate security concerns. 20 THE COURT: All right, at this time, ladies and 21 gentlemen, who are assembled in the courtroom, we are going to 22 take the noon recess, and I will indicate that we are going to 23 take the testimony in camera at this time outside the presence 24 of the public. 25 And we would never close a public proceeding in the GUERRA - D 524 1 United States. The courts are open to the public. We do the 2 business of the nation as it is judicial in front of the 3 public. The First Amendment invites that you be able to 4 observe, that you be able to criticize, that you be able to 5 evaluate the quality of justice that is administered in this 6 nation, and the only time we would close a public courtroom is 7 upon a representation that there is such danger to a party or 8 a witness in the proceeding that that would justify closing 9 the proceeding. 10 I haven't heard the justification yet, but I will 11 accept the representation of counsel, as an officer of the 12 Court, in good faith. With that said, we are going to stand 13 in recess and we will close the courtroom to the public. 14 MR. EISENBRANDT: Thank you, your Honor. 15 THE COURT: We will resume in public session at 1:30 16 p.m. 17 (The courtroom was cleared.) 18 (Sealed proceedings follow on the next page without 19 interruption, but filed under separate cover and sealed by 20 order of the Court.) 21 22 23 24 25 KARL - D 533 1 AFTERNOON SESSION 2 1:30 p.m. 3 THE COURT: Back on the record in Doe versus Saravia. 4 Mr. van Aelstyn? 5 MR. Van AELSTYN: Good afternoon, your Honor. 6 Plaintiff Doe would like to recall to the stand Professor 7 Terry Lynn Karl. 8 THE COURT: Professor, you may resume the witness 9 stand. 10 TERRY LYNN KARL, 11 called as a witness on behalf of the Plaintiff, having been 12 previously duly sworn, resumed the stand and testified as 13 follows: 14 DIRECT EXAMINATION (Resumed) 15 BY MR. Van AELSTYN: 16 Q. Professor Karl, when we left off, I believe you were about 17 to begin a discussion of the coup of October 15, 1979, in 18 El Salvador, and the members of the junta that came into power 19 as a result of that coup. 20 A. Yes. Just to recapitulate a moment, on October 15th, 21 1979, there was a coup in El Salvador led by a Colonel Majano. 22 And Colonel Majano was, on that day, a relatively unknown 23 commodity in the sense of thinking of the ultra right hardline 24 officers that I talked about earlier. In other words, they 25 knew he was not a hardliner, but they did not know what his KARL - D 534 1 own sympathies were. 2 And he showed them very quickly his sympathies by the 3 nature of the people he appointed as a governing junta. He 4 invited five members of the -- five people to join him in a 5 governing military civilian junta. 6 Q. Does that mean there was six members of the junta? 7 A. There are five members of the junta. 8 Q. Including Colonel Majano? 9 A. Including Colonel Majano, I believe. 10 Q. In addition to Colonel Majano, there were other military 11 representatives on the junta as well as other civilian 12 members? 13 A. That's right. 14 Q. What was the majority, military or civilian? 15 A. The majority -- he invited three civilians. And -- there 16 were three civilians and two military, I believe. The 17 civilians were important because they were representatives of 18 two political parties that had not previously been permitted 19 to govern El Salvador. 20 That included the Christian Democratic Party, which 21 had been denied its electoral victory in 1972, something that 22 I described, that was led by the Molina Group, and two 23 military Colonels. The Colonels are very important because 24 one of them is Colonel Gutierrez from the Molina Group. 25 So from the very beginning, there is a governing KARL - D 535 1 military civilian junta that has a representative of the 2 hardliners in it, not as a majority, but as an apparent 3 minority of the vote. 4 Q. This is the same Colonel Gutierrez that was a member of